ANONYMOUS TEXT

[sarcastass]

[Someone, somewhere, seems to be in a bit of a strange mood, as this wall of text suddenly springs up on the communicator]

Everyone holds grudges.

If you claim you have never done it before, I can only assume you're lying. None of you have a choice in the matter, almost all of you, for better or for worse, behave similarly, emotionally, to humans even if you aren't actually a human.

Holding a grudge isn't inherently negative, there's plenty of reasons to keep hating someone long after they've hurt you. It's a defense mechanism built into your psyche, in order to ensure that the damage you suffered doesn't occur again, at least from the party with a grudge against them.

My question is: At what point has a grudge gone on too far? Too long? Is it after you've exacted whatever revenge you had in mind?

Is it after that revenge succeeded? Failed?

Is it after a set amount of years? How would one quantify the exact amount of time it would take, to be reasonably 'over' an offense strong enough to create a grudge? Can that amount even be quantified?

And if it happens, what's the good in it? Does your life even improve in a fashion you'd notice? Does it have any impact on your life whatsoever, now that you've finished hating someone who has at this point, most certainly forgotten you?

What if that grudge is all that has kept you going? What if removing it would be similar to pulling the spine out of a book? What if you're sure you'll break apart without it? Is it still better? Can it be replaced with something 'better' than that grudge?

Something to ponder on, don't feel like you're required to answer.

Comments

text and then video

[child_of_bhaal]

Th I s is a b it ofa c o m pl ex qu e s t I on.

[Ok look she can't do this. The letter boxes are too tiny and so randomly ordered. It's just easier to switch to video (the only real communication she knows how to do well) on this thing.]

Sorry, I can't write on this thing. This is just easier. Feel free to keep writing if that what you'd rather.

Anyway, what you're asking is very complex. But in my own experience...?

[She leans back against the tree she's sitting under, and really gives it some thought.]

You have to decide what you can and can't forgive. Every instance is different. I've come across people that have done me wrongs, and I'm not carrying around the weight of that hatred with me, for various reasons. But there are others that... that I could never forgive. I could never stop hating them.

I've tried. I don't like holding onto it. It... It means they're still here with me. Still hurting me. But I can't let it go.

PERMA TEXT PERMA ANON

[sarcastass]

[And there's... no mockery!

That might be because it'd give him the hell away]

Then what do you do with it? Do you just let it sit there? Or do you try to make something out of it?

Even if the hatred never leaves, does acting on the grudge make the pain of the offense go away? Lessen?

And what if it was to be implied that the reason for the slight was caused by an action of your own doing? What if you were the cause for all that pain, and the actions leveled against you were in direct retaliation?

[Voice]

[0_times_0]

[Grudges are something Zero is very familiar with. Maybe a little too familiar with.]

Grudges to me are important. They keep me going. It's what motivates my very existence.

They cannot go too far to me.

No matter how much time passes, I will not forgive those who wronged me nor forget what they done to me.

[perma text/anon]

[sarcastass]

What do you do with these? It fuels your existence, but what else?

Do you carry out retaliation against them? If they die because of it, is the grudge satisfied?

Or does it persist past that?

Same for her with video!

[child_of_bhaal]

That's a lot to save at once.

[She runs a hand through her happy, thinking.]

To answer your first question, I can't really do anything but let it sit. I killed them, and... And worse, for Irenicus. It made me safer, but it didn't make me feel less wounded for what he's done to me. It hasn't erased the reality of what happened. I'll carry that with me forever.

Maybe it's because they didn't see it as wrong, that it's not enough. There were people I've forgiven, even though what was done by them was terrible. But they wouldn't have done, if they'd had a say in it. And that matters. Remorse and regret matter.

Now, as to the last part, it's again complicated to answer. Was the original action accidental? Was it an act that the retaliation was out of proportion? Was it something that should have been done, and the response was to stop it unjustly? There's a lot to look at.

[sarcastass]

[BUT HE HATES REMORSE AND REGRET, BOTH OF THESE EMOTIONS SUCK AND MAKE HIM FEEL BAD.]

The details are just as complicated.

Both sides imagine themselves to be correct, that there was a wrong that needed to be corrected.

Someone important to both sides perished because of this altercation, directly due to the actions of another party.

Said party, however, would claim it was all done in the interest of universal betterment.

The morality is only clear if you remove the emotions attached to it, something that cannot be done, regarding the murderer.

[child_of_bhaal]

[Well yeah. That's how remorse and regret work.

But boy, is this person making her work today.]

Murder.

[Her favorite word. Not.

She looks off into the middle distance, seeing nothing but what plays behind her eyes, for a long silent moment.]

It's a term that's so subjective, isn't it?

[You have murdered me, Bhaalspawn!]

It's all in who's side you're on. And without actual details, this is a case impossible to judge fairly.

Universal benefit means nothing without context. Who's betterment? Someone once tried to lock me in a box forever, because they claimed it would be better for the world.

[She shivers very sightly at the mention of this. Being locked in tight spaces has become a small fear of hers.]

But I was only guilty of living and being myself. Am I perfect? Hardly. But I try to help people. I try to stop harm from coming to them, as much as I'm able. The judgement against me was unjust, and I had to defend myself.

I think you have it backwards, my friend. I think the morality can only be clear if you involve the emotions. Nothing is black and white, and if we try to paint things that way, we miss vital part of the picture.

t e x t

[keymemory]

[ He got the first two sentences in before he decides to respond: ]

Sometimes we hold grudges but we can choose to let it go! We can be happier this way!

[sarcastass]

wow thanks im cured

[sarcastass]

Subjective only for the murderer.

I'm not going to pretend that's not the case. The murdered feels perhaps, this was a crime. Those who loved or befriended the murdered find it a crime. The only one who might believe they had a reason to do it, is the murderer themselves.

What if it was?

What would you do if you knew that your suffering would better the world? Would you still care more about your own well being? Over everyone you love? Over everyone you've met? Will never meet? Children and the elderly and everyone in between?

Emotions muddy the entire thing. Without anger and passion, without feeling sympathy or empathy, without having to worry about who had what reason for what thing, the answer is quick and clean.

Party one is murdered.

Party two is a murderer.

Murder is an abomination, thus, a crime has been committed.

[keymemory]

You're super welcome! Any time you need help or advice, you can ask me!!!

[brat_from_hell]

[Whoever you are, anon, Phibrizzo wants to meet you because you've probably got a ton of issues and negative emotions.]

Are you holding a grudge that's important to you?

[sarcastass]

['Issues' and 'negative emotions' make up about 75% of Szel.

The rest of it is sarcasm]

The very nature of holding a grudge suggests that you find it important. It takes energy and effort to maintain after all.

[brat_from_hell]

That's true. Do you have one, or do you have many grudges?

[Ie. How much of a buffet of negative emotions are you? He wants to know if it's worth trying to learn your identity.]

I once knew a Princess who held a grudge so strong that she managed to put a curse on the person she hated despite not being able to use magic.

[sarcastass]

I used to have more.

[Technically, they're done. Because the offenders were dead.]

One, now.

[About four billion years old that nearly culminated in the total destruction of his home reality as he knew it. He was so CLOSE.

I've heard stories about someone's emotions being powerful enough to create magic like that.

It's not very common, where I'm from.

text

[sleepingbagsensei]

You Scorpio?

Re: text

[sarcastass]

I don't do star signs.

Re: text

[sleepingbagsensei]

What you typed there and asking is close to one. Try reading about them.

[brat_from_hell]

What did the person you're holding a grudge against do?

[He can appreciate a good grudge, and not just for the benefits it gives him. He did, after all, form an elaborate plan to trap his traitor brother. Sometimes people do things that need to be deal with. Violently.]

It's rare where I come from, too. Although there's a sport called Brass Rackets where the magical rackets are powered by your willpower and the strength of your personality...so whoever invented those knew how powerful emotions can be.

Cw: talk of hypothetical circumstantial suicidal ideation

[child_of_bhaal]

[Ouch.

She flinches visibly. An abomination. But will she be defeated by such a hit? Not today.]

No. That would make all living things murders and therefore abominable. And sometimes you must. Sometimes you either kill or you are killed.

And sometimes, it's just an accident. Circumstances have meaning. Motive has meaning.

[She's emphatic and won't give that up. It matters.]

And since you asked, yes. If I knew implicitly, without a doubt that my death would save the lives of innocents, of good people, more than my living would, I'd fall on my own sword.

But I can't know that, and no one, save Ao himself can know it either. And he doesn't care enough about mortals to share.

So. There you have it.

anon text

[youfool]

[Anything to do with hatred of persons is, in fact, inherently negative, ergo one picosecond is too long for that.]

text, not anon

[inquisitor_lavellan]

Considering I used to have Elgar'nan's markings tattooed onto my face -- the elven God of Vengeance -- I'm afraid I don't have any useful answers for you.

But I definitely relate to using it as fuel.

Video????

[affiances]

[Oh, this sounds familiar in a certain way.]

You don't have to forgive someone for doing something terrible to you. But it's... a relief when you decide to move on. When it keeps you from living, you've held it too long.

[she pauses. thinking.]

I think it can be replaced with something better, but you should do it on your own terms. It's your grudge so you have to be the one to decide when it's time to replace it with something better.

[With better memories, with someone else. It's complicated.]

[sarcastass]

What makes an act murder is the intention behind it.

A soldier killing a soldier in combat is not murder. A man shooting his dinner isn't murder. Someone killing their attacker out of self defense isn't murder.

Killing someone in order to be rid of their influence is murder, no matter what the emotions are attached to it.

[There's a pause in this response this time. Processing the admittance that she'd let herself die if it meant the safety of others, perhaps.]

What if I told you that I do know that. Not regarding yourself, but these aforementioned parties?

If I said that I knew what the intentions were for all of them, murdered and murderer?

[sarcastass]

Deliver a punishment too harsh for the crime.

[And it sounds so simple, doesn't it? That could leave it open to a lot of shit, both minor and major]

Someone needs to inform heaven of that level of usefulness, maybe then they'd get around to actually giving people them.