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Hey so, bit of a weird question. Anyone here ever heard of Torchwood, and could maybe point me how to get back to contacting the local branch? That'd be really handy, yeah?

Year and star system coordinates would also be fantastic, but I'm not holdin' my breath waitin'.

[Bites her bottom lip in thought.]

[She doesn't even know which universe this is. Much less how she got here without a dimension cannon or where everyone she was with went. Maybe they're here. But then maybe even saying their name depending on the universe is dangerous. Luckily, she's had 5+ years (give or take for literal dimension rewinds and time in the vortex) of experience in learning how to do codes.]

Here's a fairytale you've probably never heard before.

Once upon a time there was a big bad wolf. She wandered a city of metal filled with metal men. [Too dangerous to even say the world cyberman until she learned more!] She thought she was on a mission to hunt down her lost prince. But she was actually on a mission to find home. Bit like Dorothy from Wizard of Oz if you know it. And one day she met a man who wasn't a prince at all. He was a very brainy professor. There was even another man who started off as a mouse but turned into a lion full of courage, saving worlds he never even knew existed. And a really flirty captain who was probably too pretty for his own good. They weren't off to find a wizard. Just a blue box.

The big bad wolf ran away from home and her pack over and over and over again, but no matter how many times she ran, and how many new friends she made or which universe she fell into, something was always calling her back. 'Pparently you can't escape your family that easily. That or the Big Bad Wolf's mum was seriously terrifying and would fight a werewolf for diamonds and totally win.

Thanks for listening, Ta!

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"Am I?" Rose blinked in surprise, and laughed quietly. "I dunno if my Mum would atree with you or hate you for sayin' that."

Another surprise. "You've met ood?" Well, she shouldn't be surprised. Donna had freed them all, hadn't she? And there was a good stretch of time and space where humans were still using them as slaves between them.

"Ah," Rose's expression softened and she gestured to the wedding ring. "You're married? How long? Is he or um, she here too?"

"You are. Really, if it weren't for how well dressed you are and that you have what looks like a normal enough drink, I might have hugged you right off."

"Yeah, he kind of abandoned one at our house for a while. Seemed.... determined to do chores for us." She was still confused by that. "Not clue why, couldn't talk him out of it. Surprisingly good cook, actually."

She nodded tapping her ring with a bit of a grin. "He. Well, most of the time he. Does plastic even have a gender? Not that he's still plastic, but he was for a bit there. Nestene something or other. Oh you should have seen how jealous he was when he found out I snogged the Doctor night before our wedding," she said with an impish grin. Then she shrugged. "But it's always been him, even when he's stupid enough to think it isn't. You know how some little boys push a girl down or pull her pigtails as kids, cause he likes her and doesn't know it himself, or how to say it?"

Rose giggled intensely at that first part. "Sounds about right." She snapped her fingers. "I shoulda ordered a banana daiquiri. He accidentally invented it." She circled a finger backwards behind an ear signifying he was definitely a bit crazy, even to Rose, who was too much like him for her own good.

"Mmn..." Rose murmured softly and sipped her drink. "Oods are kept as slaves during certain parts. Sort of a psychic link thing that gets broken. I never found out the whole of it."

One more thing on a list to ask the Meta-Crisis Doctor about, and make sure to resolve in their parrallel universe. Someday. When she got back there, obviously.

She blinked, "You snogged the Doctor?" It was weird: the feeling about that. It was after her, and she was still angry enough with him that it didn't hurt. But it was still strange, having another woman admit that so easily and freely, when despite being madly in love with him for two years it took Rose so long and... and it wasn't the alien Doctor. And he left her over it...

"How'd he handle that?" she asked quietly, sipping her drink again, just listening carefully, a little bemused at herself. Maybe the anger was enough. She didn't view the regular 2-hearted alien Doctor as well "hers" anymore. He'd made it clear he didn't want her following after him, despite everything she'd done for him... or maybe because of that. Rose was a little bitter, but this helped. Talking about it casually. Something she'd always wanted and never been able to have.

"Ummmm," to the final question, Rose pinched the bridge between her eyes, "Closest I ever came was this bloke from the Estates I grew up in. Mickey. Few years older 'n me, but in that story that's not really a story? He was the mouse that became a lion. Except he wasn't really the type to push anyone around. More like he got pushed around and I always tried to rescue him." She downed the rest of her drink in one go, grateful for the burn, and buried her head in her arms temporarily, admitting accidentally, "'M STILL like that."

Poor human-Doctor. He was being pushed around by the other Doctor, fobbed off into another universe without consideration for what he wanted, without knowing for sure that Rose would really stay, just them trying to what, manipulate her into looking after him? Because no one else but her Mum would, and what a disaster that would have been, and sure maybe he could get a job with her Dad, and grow a new TARDIS and find the other universe Donna, but then what? Even trying to save the universe, or the multiverse, the Doctor got pushed around, and did the pushing around and someone had to stand firm and not allow for either.

"But go on, yeah?"

"He invented Banana Daiquiris? Yeah, he just finished telling us he invented Yorkshire Pudding too. But Rule One, so..." she grinned.

"We really did try to tell him no about looking after us." Wee bit guilty now.

She laughed a bit? "How did the Doctor handle me deciding that since I had just almost died, I was going to have the snog of my life the night before my wedding? He kidnapped my Fiance and gave us a pre-honeymoon present of almost getting killed by vampires. Actually, that was just the first. Three of us traveled a lot the night before the wedding. Best times. I had my Tardis, had my boys, had my adventures. Even if half the time he promised me one place we wound up somewhere else. Was never boring. Oh! Right! Three times. But not sure if that time counts, since I was waving at my future self at a distance. Oh.... That's coming up, we better make sure the Doctor brings us back to wave at our past when we get home."

"Well, Rory was like that. Except I was the one pushing him around a bit I guess." She sipped her drink smiling, then her smile feel away. "Okay, given Mels treated him the same way I did, tiny bit creepy, that." And a larger drink.

"You keep saying Rule One... but I swear his rule one is don't wander off and I break that so badly I crossed parrallel universes when he told me not to," Rose shrugged. Well, he didn't tell her not to. The other time. Now... he kind of definitely did. Jerk. Fine. Let him meet Amy and get snogged by his... whatever Amy was, instead.

She smiled about the stories of Rory and Amy, feeling immensely better already. He wasn't alone. He might have lost Donna, somehow, but he wasn't alone. And that was important. And she was going to live her own adventures to make him jealous because he couldn't even imagine what they'd all be. And maybe look up Rory and Amy's alternate universe counterparts if they still existed in Pete's world. "Yeah? Who's Mels? Another friend? Does she travel with the Doctor too?

She snorted. "He may say rule one is don't wander off, but rule one is 'The Doctor Lies'. Comes from a reliable source. One that isn't the Doctor."

She studied Rose for a long moment. "How are you about keeping secrets from him? Because I'm rubbish at it, and that's kind of the mother of all spoilers." She thought of her own phrasing and had an expression somewhere between a grimace and a smirk. Rory'd have laughed at that.

"Gotcha."

Rose was quiet. How good at keeping secrets was she?

Painfully so.

She hated it.

How many adventures she could never tell anyone. Things she couldn't tell her own mother. Her father, her boss, the world, the entire universe, MULTIPLE universes. THE DOCTOR.

"My father, Peter Tyler died when I was a child. I created a paradox accidentally when I begged the Doctor to take me back so he wouldn't have to die alone, but instead of just holding his hand after he died, I pushed him out of the way. That was the first time I actually saw the Doctor die."

A muscle in her cheek twitched. Despite Amy's admittance that she couldn't keep a secret for anything, Rose trusted her enough to figure out when and where those secrets would be an actual problem. "I've see him die thousands of times since." No exaggeration. And she got a second drink, gnawed slightly on the frosted rim and sipped it slowly. "That was the last time I'd been drinking, yeah?"

She cracked knuckles in front of her and then behind her back.

"The Doctor sent me to another universe, but with the TimeLords gone, they're all sealed off from each other. The only way in is through the void, which I've fallen into a good three times now. UNIT has no record of anything to do with me, because I erased it all with the Bad Wolf virus." She grinned slyly and put a finger to her nose, "You see, I've gotten accustomed to having to keep secrets from myself, resulting in a long train of messages I just have to trust instinct for."

A harder chug of her drink, the burning alcohol making her voice hoarse. "That's how I got back. In the alternate universe my parents never had me, and my Mom became a cyberman, so my real Mom, the one from the Doctor's universe, married that universe's Peter Tyler, and he became the head of Torchwood after the cyberman were created on the Earth there." She waved a hand, with a gesture for the sky, because even if Amy believed her, the only other person who would would be the Doctor.

"That's how parrallel universes are, yeah? Zeppelins all in the air, instead'a planes, and the big thing is Torchwood."

Now to explain that: "Torchwood is a secret organization founded in the Doctor's universe specifically because the Queen Victoria exiled me and the Doctor, and wanted an anti-alien agency to deal with him and whatever else. In Pete's Universe, it was founded because Queen Victoria died by werewolf, which was an alien, of course. My best friend Jack, that flirty Captain in the story, also took over one of the divisions in the Doctor's universe..." she rubbed the bridge between her eyes trying to sift the multitude of universes and memories, "Cardiff I believe."

Another hand wave. "The stars started going out, the darkness was coming, and I knew we needed help from someone even I wasn't enough to handle everything, so I created a special project against my new half-adopted, half-blood, completely alternate universe father's wishes, that'd be Peter Tyler, yeah? He took over and became the leader of Torchwood when cyberman were all created on Earth there. So I made this project, even though the Doctor said it was impossible and too danger, and Pete would nevar have allowed it. And I went traveling the dimensions to find the Doctor."

Another sip. "I had a new baby brother, I definitely couldn't let my Mum know. And Mickey, yeah, he was in that universe too, but not anymore, he'd'ave squealed like a pig to my Mum. So I had to keep it secret from pretty much everyone who wasn't working directly on it. And even then, I had to lock it down tighter than the Manhattan Project because this would just nuke a city, in the wrong hands, it could destory the multiverse. I extra had to make sure Pete could nevar find out. And that was one heckuva headache because he was the head of Torchwood, and the main inventor, so almost every project went through him."

She licked the outside of the rim of her glass, stealing all the sugar she could with her tongue. "I've seen the world end and reboot and continue more times than even the Doctor has. I made a fixed point to keep him alive. I spent two years madly in love with him, and only felt brave enough to tell him when we were already separated by universes apart, and the walls closed before he could say anything but my name back."

She chewed on the rim aggressively, mostly just frustrated with herself, with him, definitely with him.

"If the Doctor here is from after leaving me with his other self, I don't know what I'll do. I don't trust myself to speak to him. If he's from before that, I don't trust myself to say hello either, because the last time I tried, he got shot by a dalek again, and nearly died, and would have died, except that's how he wound up with a double, because he cheated with some sort of regeneration trick which created a human version of himself, that he ditched in my parent's new universe, and pretended to give me a 'choice,'" she used her fingers to mime air quotes, "To look after or not."

Chug.

"Oh, and mind," her face twisted slightly pained, "Even without telling anyone about the dimension cannon and what I was doin' with it, my Mum and Mickey, still came after me following my trail, through the universes that were resolved anyway, and trying to talk me out of it." She spread her hands with a shrug. "I don't much relish having to make it up to the rest of the people on the project, because my Mum must'a put them through hell, and I've no doubt Pete will wanna fire me, especially since Mum left Tony to chase after me and he's only a year an' a half old now." A snort, and Rose rubbed the bridge between her eyes, frankly relieved to get it all out there, and tell someone other than a half-dead or dying TARDIS her problems.

"Oh, and," Rose snapped her fingers. "The Doctor has no idea I can talk to her, the -- blue ship. Because the first time he sent me away for good so he could die, and the second time he really did get himself killed, I fused my soul with hers, and that's how I made a trail I could follow, leading me back to one dying TARDIS to another." More rubbing between her eyes. "And I'm not evar going to tell him," she growled fiercely. "Because he left us, me and his human half, a piece of TARDIS coral to grow our own, but basically left it to him, because he was still trying to con me with the idea that it was my 'choice,'" finger quotes again, "To make. Some choice."

She pounded her fist on the bar and ordered a plate of chips (fries.) Then mimed the 10th doctor nearly perfectly. "He's too dangerous to leave runnin' around the universe, Rose. I was like that too, but you made me better!" She growled furiously to herself. "Right there with my Mum lookin' on, after she'd gone to the trouble of travelin' too, even though she hates that kind of thing. Right when I knew better than anyone. even some high and mighty timelord, what the real cost was! And he was just -- He was gonna leave a human version with my Mum to deal with." She facepalmed and dragged her hand down. "What was I supposed to do?"

It felt good. Finally voicing the anger and hurt that had been bubbling for even just the few short hours since he'd left. She couldn't tell her Mum, of course. Mickey had gone back to the other universe with Martha and Jack. And it wasn't the Meta-Crisis' fault at all. Even if he was in on the plan to con her, he didn't have much choice in it either.

More growls, and Rose's eyes flashed daggers, "And he had the nerve to call his other self an accident. A mishap to act like it was a bad thing. A COST! He lite'ally called him a cost! Some sort of bad side effect to the way he cheated death this time around." Rose threw her hands up in the air, not caring if it drew attention. It was clear this place wasn't following the usual time rules if a past Doctor but future compainion: Amy were here, and the way the the cities operated. No clear date or star system coordinates, maybe even the Doctor didn't know which universe this was. And the Doctor had confiscated her cannon and all the hoppers, even if she'd been tempted to steal one back, so whatever had brought her here, probably wasn't her own doing. For once. "His own other self. Not like the poor man asked to be created. Asked to be born!"

Rose took a very deep breath and sighed heavily running a hand over her hair and then eyes. "I can keep secrets. I don't know that I even want to see him though. And I'll tell you another?"

She bit her bottom lip hard.

"I'm scared. If he's happy, it's gonna kill me. If he's mad? I'm gonna be mad right back. And if he does the whole, 'I'm always fine,' I'm gonna scream. Because I know, better than anyone, that he is nevar fine. That he nevar has it together, and the more he's faking it, the more it hurts me. And I don't even know if it hurting me even would bother him or if he cares at this point, because he's just so broken and stupid!" another furious growl and Rose was proud that at least the sheer unadulterated rage at the injustice of it all kept her from feeling the hurt and pain of the first time, the worst day of her life when he'd burned up a sun just to say goodbye.

Back to the previous quiet Rose from before: "He was happy the last time. So much he didn't even see the dalek coming around the corner. I can't do that again. I just... bloody well can't."

Wow that was a lot of exposition all at once. She finished her wine while she listened and ordered another. She waited till Rose finished to start talking.

"Alright, I'd say that's a bit much to take in , but I suppose if I could adjust to being the Doctor's mo..... we'll get to that," she said with a bit of a groan. "River was right, even the simple things with the Doctor are never simple. But I wouldn't have thought he could split off a human of himself. I think if he had ever tried that with River she would have killed him, if he tried that with me, River and Rory both would have killed him."

"Honestly?" she sipped her wine. "I think you and River would either hate each other or get along splendidly. Either way I hope to be there, to keep you from killing each other, or to watch the show. But it'll help to be able to talk to someone, I s'ppose. And I've a feeling w could match notes for notes, in the long run. Dalek for Dalek, and such. Would have been nice if the Doctor had told me she'd been able to talk before to someone. I wouldn't have teased him any less for it, of course. But could have given us an edge over House. But you seem uncertain about talking openly here, and I'm not sure we can go anywhere back there that he won't be aware of you from all you said. So we're going to have to find some place you feel safe to talk. For the record, he refused to talk too deeply about things in the diner, despite being the one bringing me there. I haven't been here long enough to find any safe space other than my room. And he's bad about remembering not to come into my room without knocking, at least the him I know better."

Rose snorts at that. "Like I said, he doesn't know. And I don't feel like telling him. Not even to make him jealous." A small sigh. "Damn, and I was thinking of hiding out in your room until I feel ready to face him." A weak grin to show she was mostly joking.

A quiet hum, "The Doctor I know is a bit better about privacy... but I reamed him out on our first trip for not warning me that the TARDIS gets inside your head. Big invasion of privacy, that. So it might just be that he's more careful with me."

Rose held up three fingers, "The bar's safe to talk, or I wouldn't'a said all that, but making the Doctor talk about anything he doesn't want to is like bashing your head against a brick wall. That was the other thing about our first trip, him and me. I was freaked out realizing I'd run off with an older man I knew little to nothing about. I was only nineteen at the time, and we went to the end of the world and I realized all at once, I didn't know his real name, his planet, his family, if he'd left me there I didn't even have a way back."

"That said," she took a sip of the drink, still holding up the fingers. "Three questions now. How'd you meet? Who's Mels, and who's River Song?" A finger lowered for each equestion. She chewed her bottom lip uncertainly. "And what are you to the Doctor?" She shrugged and rolled her shoulders apologetically. "I didn't tell ya all that just to get it off my chest, though it helped, thanks," she gave Amy an apologetic grin, "But the only reason I didn't run off after him and attach myself to the Ta-- Blue ship, other Doctor be damned, was because Donna promised to look after him. S'possible she just died o' old age, and you agreein' that he shouldn't be alone helps, but..." Rose shrugged apologetically again, "He was alone when I met him. Naive me, I thought I was the first. I've gotten over it since then, but," Rose chewed her bottom lip some more, trying to think of the best way to phrase it, depsite the alcohol which seemed to go straight to her head.

"No matter how mad I am," she admitted quietly, "He's always going to be important to me."

Oh, and she was still mad. And unsurprised that anyone else would have killed him. Rose hadn't exactly forgiven him either. Or made peace. But it was only hours fresh. And she still worried that maybe, just maybe some of her had used Bad Wolf to run away after all that after all. Meta-Crisis be damned.

"River would say no one is madder than he is, and you could take your pick how." She sipped her wine. She leaned closer and spoke softly. "You're about to understand why the Doctor put down rules about what River can and cannot say to him. Okay, Rose," she said to her in a hushed tone. "This is where it gets complicated. When I was a little kid, I had an imaginary friend. He promised me he'd be back in five minutes. When I grew up, he came back. Who am I to the Doctor? The first person his next face sees, and his mother in law." Have fun with that one. I don't know what happened to lead to his regeneration, but it was the first time I ever saw the..." She thought Rose was being a little silly not calling it a Tardis, but she'd play along, "blue box. It was on its side. And on fire. In my backyard. He climbed out, soaking wet. Rule one and all, tell me, your time with him, was there really a swimming pool in the library, or did he just add that later to sell the lie?"

She shook her head. Not important, and she knew that, but she kind of wanted to soften the whole mother in law thing. She knew what a blow it had come to her as... and she had only snogged him and flirted at that point. Rose seemed to be far more in love, even of she chose a different Doctor....

Oh... Oh..... Ganger. The human version of the Doctor... he made a Ganger! No wonder he had been so cross with her! She could smack herself. Needed to see the early days of the technology. Year right! That something had just dawned on her was clear on her face. "Oh I could just smack him for that..." she muttered, but without the anger River usually had when she said it.

Rose snorted about him being back in five minutes. If he was still regenerating, that was even worse. Idiot.

Mother in law...

Well that was a new one.

She was grateful for the downed whiskey sour already making her head fuzzy enough to deal with this.

"There really is a swimming pool in the library," she said quietly and sipped at the rest of her drink, somehow delightfully unfazed by the weirdness of this. Just one of those days. "I used to lounge in it, read all the Harry Potter books but the last one." She scrunched her face up. "He said it made him cry and I couldn't bear it. I cried enough from the others."

"Smack him for what?" Rose tilted her head to the side.

"His human double. Living flesh? A Ganger? He told me we went to see the early days of the Gangers, cause he had to learn more about them. Ooooooooh. If he did that just because....." She made small strangling motions with her free hand then put it around her wine glass, since the person she wanted to strangle or smack wasn't there at the moment.

Rose shrugged. "Never heard of gangers. But the Meta-crisis isn't like that. The Doctor got his hand cut off when he regenrated before, so when he got shot by the dalek running to greet me, he used the regeneration loop so he could stay the same. And then DAVROS tried to melt down the TARDIS with the hand and Donna inside, and apparently the hand turned into a full... human version. Human because of Donna."

Doctor things.

Rose quietly sipped her alcohol. "And then because the Meta-Crisis Doctor felt it was too dangerous to leave the army of daleks, he killed them all, and the Doctor was furious with him, and said he was too much like the version of him I first met. And too dangerous to leave unattended in the universe." Rose rolled her eyes. "Because saving several universes all at once is so wrong." She rubbed between her eyes. "I can't remember it, but I'm pretty sure I did the same thing too once. Maybe that's another reason he ditched me in another universe."

Edited 2017-07-26 09:54 (UTC)

She snorted a bit. "River would do the same thing without hesitation, just to save one universe, so long as it contained him and Earth. Wouldn't stop her for a second." And he'd be cross with her for a bit, and the next time they met he'd not know if she remembered that and would ease up. She had to admit, living in a mixed up order did seem to calm the usual spats that couples had.

"I knew regeneration energy could be given, never heard of anything like that though." She was frowning, thinking as she sipped her wine. "Learned one thing though, after a bit. No matter how much you may think it's the end, think he's dead, or gone forever, he never is, right? So it's always possible he would've found his way back to you even if you hadn't both gotten dragged to this place. Gotta ask, though. Your parallel, what year is it on Earth, last you were there?"

Rose arched first one eyebrow then the other. "You still haven't said who River is," she pointed out.

"No. He's an idiot. He'd have stayed dead those thousands of times if I hadn't fixed it. I needed him so I wouldn't let even have death." Her own eyes deadened. "Another thing I get to look forward to. I'm hoping the Meta-Crisis will be more careful so long as I'm there but..." She rubbed her forehead. Where was he anyway?!

"I have no idea the year," she admitted with a shrug. "It's been too many jumps, and I didn't even have time to get back to London from Dalig Ulv-Stranden -- Bad Wolf Bay in Norway. I swear everything bad in my life happens in Norway. I should just avoid that country no matter what universe I'm in." She needed real tea now. "Let's see... Tony's... one? Or is he two? No prime minister, Britain has a President instead. I guess Queen Victoria's death really did a number on the world." Rose counted off on her fingers silently recounting the last few presidents since the cyberman killed the one the Doctor had been there for. "Nah, that's no help. 2008, 2009, 2010, up to 2020. Pretty sure it's not that yet. Nor 2016. I'd notice Tony bein' older. Could be 2012 though."

She chewed her bottom lip in thought. She'd seen the British Olympics for 2012 with the Doctor but... "Hey how'd Britain do in the London Olympics? Didja see the Doctor carrying the torch at all? He did that... but we'd gone and skipped into the future for it. And then you know how he is, just has to insert himself into big historical moments." A fond grin. "At the time he said I'd just have to watch for real in normal time, but obviously that never happened."

(Had to delete my whole post, cause I was getting conflicting information what year it is for her. 2013, cause slow invasion spanned a year. Gods, I think 2013. Pond life also messed with things. Blarg.)

"Didn't watch the olympics. That was part of what Rory calls real life not getting much of a look-in. Not sure if that was when we were on the Sai'lurian space ship with Brian and Neffy and the idiot with the bug game ideals, or if we were in the anachronistic steampunk west then. Rough time either way, and when we are actually home, generally we're trying to catch up on work and bills from all the time missed because the Doctor swears he can get us back to the minute after we left and usually manages a month or three after we left."

"Right. River. I think we're both going to need another drink for this one." then she raised her voice ever so slightly "Course, she could just walk in and introduce herself, help me out?" She glanced around the room at all the exits and entrances. "Too much to hope, I guess. Course if there were a fez or a stetson here I don't think the laws of the universe would have allowed her to miss that cue." She grinned a bit.

"Bug game?" Rose snorted quietly. What was even the point to managing a normal life with the Doctor around? Even when she'd teased him to pieces about getting a mortgage, it'd just been teasing. She trusted him enough to get someplace with him, but getting picked up and dropped off?? That she knew better than to trust him with. Between the missing year, and even winding up in a universe the TARDIS couldn't literally exist in... yeah.

Rose tensed. It'd be easier if Amy just blurted it out. Building it up like this made her too scared. And maybe she was too much like the Doctor, because she just wanted to run right out of the conversation. Dodge it completely. Leave it for future Rose to deal with. "I'd don one, but I'm not sure buying one is worth the gag joke. How about an easier one, who's Mels?"

"Nah, just usually someone starts talking about her' she's got a half a chance of showing up just to do the talking herself. Would have made my life easier, and it would be good to have her here. Alright, this one's a not easy, and who's Mels isn't any easier. Alright, I'll try to do this in some order that makes sense."

She sipped her wine then set it down. This was generally easier with paper.

"When I was little, a little before I met the Doctor, I had a best friend, and a lame dorky kid who followed us around. Lame kid.." she tapped her ring. "Rory. Best friend was Mels. I'd gotten so used to not having parents, and almost never seeing my aunt, guess it never dawned on me to ask about hers. She probably would have lied about it, anyway." she shrugged a bit, eyes misty. "Mels... Oh Mels could get into trouble worse than any other girl in Leadworth, except for me. Back then I was so sure I counted as a boy, little, flat, plain, a bit chubby maybe. I felt like Rory and I were never done bailing her out of trouble."

She fiddled with her wine glass, speaking more quietly, but not looking at Rose.

"Doctor came back when I was an adult, finished the adventure we started when I was a kid. Promised me he was just hopping to the moon and back to break in the new T.... box. Showed up again two years later. We were traveling along together, all was fine, when he decided he had to go to a museum. How he keeps score. Of course next thing I know, we're running from the guards, cause he's gone and stolen an artifact cause there was a message burned into it. Couldn't read it, guessing it was Galifreyan, since River says that doesn't translate. Might not have been though, hadn't been with him long at that point. Message was from River Song, he went to the coordinates and she flew in the doors, in mid flight, crashed right into him. She pointed to the ship she'd come flying out of, and told us to follow it."

"They then started bickering, I sort of half guessed right off, the way they argued about how to fly her. They sounded like an old married couple. It was quite amusing to watch. Never tell him I said this, but if I ever learn to fly that thing, I'm learning from River. You know it doesn't actually have to make that noise? He leaves the parking break on." Small amused snort. "Anyway, got to know River from then on, started to really like her, you know. She and the Doctor, they keep meeting in the wrong order. She says they're in opposite directions, but I don't think it's ever been that simple. But apparently the time I met her, he'd only met her once or twice before, and he kept trying to listen in on our conversations to figure out who she was."

"Alright. That was Mels. and River. One more name to this mess, and you can't tell the Doctor ay of this, of course," she said softly.

"Melody. Rory and I'd been traveling with the Doctor a while when I was kidnapped. Didn't know I was at first, they built me a Ganger, sent it along with the Doctor and psychically linked me to it. My guess is it happened somewhere between when we saw the astronaut" she whispered now, "kill the Doctor, stopping his regeneration. Oh River made it clear Rory and I could never tell him that he invited us to watch his own death...." Her lips pursed angrily at that. Then she shook her head. "When I learned how hard it is to keep a secret from that man. He invited his younger self to meet us after to go on the adventure he'd given us clues to before he died...." Her hands closed around a napkin tightly. "River slapped him. I suppose I should have too, but I was just so glad he was alive I hugged him and didn't want to stop. Rory took exception to that, of course. Anyway, during that mess, we wound up finding a space suit, same sort, 1969. When it started coming for us, I didn't think... should have... didn't. I shot the space suit, trying to save his life. But when the visor lifted... it was a little girl. I think I was kidnapped right around then."

"And yes, this all leads back to one explanation, and no I don't know a simpler way of telling it so that it makes sense. We went looking for the little girl, and we found the orphanage where she was being kept, but not her. While there, I saw a glimpse into reality, woman in an eyepatch peering through a window in a door that had no window. That's how I know I had to be taken before that point. Before that point, and after I found out I was pregnant and told the Doctor. So imagine my surprise when in the little girl's room I found a photo. Me. A bit older. Holding a baby. Made no sense then."

"Gangers don't change quite the same way. So I became sure I wasn't pregnant after all, we kept having our adventures. Then the Doctor took us to see the early days of the Gangers. Said he needed to see the tech when it was new. Also said he needed to know if I saw Gangers as people or not. And then..." deep breath..." He pointed his sonic at me. Told me to breathe and that he'd be there for me soon. Then he sonicced me, and next thing I knew... I was about to give birth on an asteroid called Demons Run."

"He arrived with his usual sense of timing, of course. Meaning my daughter was almost a month old. I named her after Mels, my best friend as a kid. The Doctor gathered up people to help rescue me, and one of the people... he sent Rory to go get River out of prison. River refused to come, though I didn't find that out til later. Kovarian, the woman with the eye patch, she took my baby. She let Rory rescue a Ganger copy. She made a Ganger of my little Melody, and took her away." She closed her hands into fists. "We couldn't save her."

"During my captivity, one of the soldiers, someone who joined the group that kidnapped me, hoping to meet the Doctor again, she made me a prayer leaf, my child's name in the language of her people. River showed up at the end, just after we found out Melody had been taken."

She closed her eyes. She showed the Doctor something, they prayer leaf. He went from concerned and angry to all giggly stupid like a school boy, then he hopped in his box, told River to get us all home safe and swore to me he knew where my daughter was and that on his life, she'd be safe. Or saved. One or the other. Anyway, he left, refused to answer anything. I... may not have been at my best just then. Picked up a gun, threatened River to tell me what she told the Doctor. I was tired of non-answers, I just wanted my little girl, my baby. She showed me what she had shown him. The prayer leaf. I named my daughter Melody Pond. But the soldier who made it was from the Gamma Forests. Idris had told us, but I hadn't understood, not in time. But the Doctor caught on, and River who hadn't even been there for that, she knew. For good reason. See, in the Gamma forests, the only water they have.... is a River. They don't have a word for Pond. Melody Pond. River Song."

She swallowed hard. "River. The River I spent so much time with... was my daughter."

She took a deep breath, pushing away the tears.

"This still leaves Mels. Getting to her." Odd to think she missed Mels differently than she missed Melody or River. "For the recond..." She pulled her mobile out of her pocket, showed a picture. "That's River." She flipped to another picture. "That's Mels at about 15, after we bailed her out of juvie."

She put the phone away.

"So, we waited a whole summer for the Doctor to find Melody. We knew she'd grow up into River and be a wonderful if somewhat violent woman, but I still wanted to have a hand in that, wanted to raise my little girl. But a whole summer, and the Doctor didn't show up. So, Rory and I made a diagram, got in his dad's old junker car, and made a crop circle to form the word Doctor. Sure enough, blue box pops up in the O. He hands us the paper as if to make a point that we didn't have to go that far, and while I was talking to him, Rory looked at the paper, noticed a line through the word that we hadn't made. Cue Mels in a stolen car, nearly crashing into us. Cops hot on her tail. She pulled a gun on the Doctor, demanded an adventure. By the way, if he ever says guns don't work in the box, he's lying. Mels took him at face value, shot the consol wanting to see in what way the gun wouldn't work. She was very sorry after, for what it was worth, and the box did forgive her."

"So we wound up back in Germany, World War Two. Mels was always mouthing off in class how all these human tragedies happened because the Doctor didn't stop them. So she wanted to use the box to stop the worst of them all. Except we weren't the only time travelers there. A robot from the far future, called the Teselecta had shown up, after the same target, to punish him for his war crimes. We accidently saved him. None of us were too pleased with that. Mels got caught in the cross fire between the Teselecta and him... We were able to stash both, but Mels was in bad shape, the box was in bad shape so we couldn't get her for help, and no one there was going to help. Doctor kept trying to talk to her, kept trying to get her to hold on."

She rubbed at her face, wondering if Rose had guessed where this was going. Since the Doctor knew about Regenerations and hadn't guessed, she doubted it. "Mels said that with all the stories I told her about the Doctor, growing up, said that she had always dreamed she'd marry him some day. So to keep her with him he said he would, he'd marry her, but she had to survive so he could. She pointed out he ought to ask her parents first. He said that yes, as soon as she was patched up, he'd call her folks." She took a shaky breath. "That's when she said that he didn't need to... since Rory and I were already there. And... And that was when Mels regenerated. Into River song." Confused yet? "Sady, that's the simple explanation and leaves out some very important details, but gives you the gist. River Song, Mels. Same person, different regeneration. She's the woman who kills the Doctor. She's the woman who marries him."

"What really?" Rose interrupted about the parking brake, "But I love that noise!"

Too much like the Doctor indeed.

But she was enjoying story time :3

She didn't want to disrupt Amy's flow, but it was important. "So the Doctor here doesn't know any of this?"

Rose's eyebrows arched nearly sky high about the slapping. She wasn't sure she could blame River, all things told, but her own reaction would definitely have been more akin to Amy's.

"No worries," Rose waved a hand, enjoying her tea with a silly straw, and kicking her heels some. "Nothing's ever easy with the Doctor."

She wanted to ask why. Why kidnap a baby. But let Amy continue instead -- and slowly let go of the straw with her mouth as the dots connected.

River Song and Mels were Amy's .... ???? Somehow time or regenerative daughter? Which was probably why she was kidnapped.

Amy was the Doctor's Mother-in-Law because he married River Song.

Maybe meeting Amy in her own parallel universe was an adventure she could skip after all.

She continued listening and ordered an entire pot of tea, more wine for Amy, and told the bartender to leave the bottle.

Wow.

She wasn't quite at a point of being willing to slap the Doctor, but she was close.

In a strange way though???

It made her a zillion times more ready to face him. Her own drama and issues seemed pale in comparison. If Amy and Rory and... their daughter, could forgive all that, maybe stranding Rose with her family and a double of the Doctor wasn't that bad. Not even by a long-shot.

Rose peered at the pictures, arched both eyebrows, and finished the rest of her drink in one go. "She's beautiful."

She hated the Doctor. Just a smidge. It was a good pain though. The kind of fire she needed right then.

Both eyebrows arched all over again about Mels pulling a gun.

Doctor what are you doing?!

"Uh no. He's never said guns don't work... He just... refuses to take along people with guns. Threatened to shoot Jack out of an airlock if he didn't obey that rule, and that was outside the TARDIS."

She shivered.

Doctor, What. The. Hell?

"Saved him who?" Rose shook her head in confusion. "What worst tagedy?"

"Yeah. I think... I think got that part." That River Song married him. Although Rose was frankly worried about the future Doctor. Was he happy??? WAS HE?? Rose couldn't smile but gave a weak attempt all the same, and ran her fingers through her hair. She swore quietly, language her mum, and even the Doctor might threaten her over, even if she'd heard him do worse, mostly in a previous life when he cut himself shaving. "Well, congratulations. You take the cake on this one. I thought I had the market cornered on the Doctor screwin' me over and ditchin' me to start from scratch, but at least he didn't pull a lite'al Peter Pan with me or some nonsense." A small shudder, and Rose held up her glass in cheers. "I hope you know though, if I do run into you in my -- the universe the Doctor calls Pete's world, because he was involved with trying to prevent the rise of the cyberman, even while his company was getting used as a front for it. Long story. Ya clearly know how it is -- I'm not lettin' any of that happen."

A snort and she polished off a third whiskey, wincing at the burn.

"Yanno for a bit I was feelin' kind of disappointed. You know how at the end of Beauty and the Beast she kisses him and he turns human, and it's so bittersweet because that's now what she fell in love with? It was exactly like that. Only now??? DEFINITELY whole new perspective." Rose spoke with her hands, broadly holding them out and up. "That is a lot'a mess, I don't got the patience for. Just. Cheers to you, yeah? Because there is no way I could'a dealt with that. NONE o' it."

She shuddered and drank tea through the silly straw, only to snort and nearly get some of it up her nose and have to choke quietly, trying to act less... ridiculous. "So Madame Kavorian, yeah? Eyepatch woman? She was tryin' ta kidnap Mels... Melody to be.... a TimeLord assassin?"

Even at her most drunk, let it never be said Rose couldn't connect the dots better than anyone, even the Doctor.

There was another pang in her heart though.

He married a TimeLord. Who could regenerate. With human parents. But traveled with those parents and...

She hadn't expected that to hurt. Didn't even really know why it hurt.

Maybe it was just finally letting go. Letting go of the stupid childish teenage dream that him being an alien and 900+ years old didn't matter. Because he was alone and she would make him less lonely.

Was he less lonely?

Was he happy?

He had what he wanted... didn't he?

A lone tear betrayed Rose and she startled as she felt it fall, laughing as she wiped it on the back of her hand.

"I don't know why I'm upset.... it's so him. It's good, yeah? To know he's still... unstoppable now. I fought so hard for that. All those jumps, watching him die all those times, was just so he'd get Donna to stop him from practically suicide-ing."

Rose rubbed her eyebrows and forehead. "I didn't know anyone could... make another TimeLord. Doctor said they couldn't, but I guess that's why you've got your Rule One, yeah?"

Ugh. Nope, it still hurt. She was glad, not even upset that he got married. Just so strangely jealous of the TimeLord aspect. She'd never wanted to stop being human, her Mum saying she was becoming less and less human with all the trips and Bad Wolf scared her. How long before she became cyberman or like Cassandra, so desperate to stay and cling on and squeeze out one more adventure? So desperate to never the see the end.

Rose hid her face in both hands and slowly dragged them down -- another gesture she had no idea was similar to the Doctor's.

"I mean... he had kids before, but he lost 'em in the Time War. S'why I thought I was the first. Because after the Time War he'd given up taking anyone with him. Too dangerous. Going centuries alone." She shook her head softly. "That's good though, innit? Now he's got real family and can have TimeLord kids and be a terrible parent all over again." Or a good father, whatever. Rose wasn't going to see it, so she honestly didn't care at this point. It was easier to think of Mickey having kids since she wasn't still in love with Mickey... or his double.

Her head hurt just thinking about it.

Would the Meta-Crisis want kids?

Her internal reaction was so much noping out all over again, and a mild fear of his Peter Pan syndrome, and apparently the only way Amy was able to be both mother and adventurer was not something Rose would wish on even Cassandra.

She literally faceplanted into the bartop and mumbled, "And the one here is before that regeneration so before even meeting you and her and uuuugh."

She got up, just to refill Amy's glass of wine. The woman deserved it. And then some.

She rubbed her temples and laid her head back on the bar. "I feel better about facing him now."

Because if Amy who was bad at secrets could hide all that, then Rose could practically be an open book in comparison with her emotions and it still wouldn't top anything out.

Rose held up a single finger. "How does River know how to drive the TARDIS? I mean... she shot it as Mels, so she mustn't'ave known then, yeah?"

It wasn't an instinctive TimeLord thing, the Doctor had more than shown that. And Rose... still couldn't drive the TARDIS despite fusing her soul with it. She just sort of let the TARDIS drive her... Even when she was world and dimension hopping. "Ta be honest.... I can't... drive her yet. Without his psychic link, I mean I guess she has that as a a TimeLord?" OH THE JEALOUSY. "But even when he was dead in those other realms... I could only really let the TARDIS tell me what to do. And I had to hook up my dimension cannon, and shade things... even when I fused my soul with hers? Bad Wolf?? I think I just sort of... Let her drive me. I'm a little fuzzy on the details... But that's... I mean I guess Meta-Crisis still has a TimeLord brain so psychic link. But..." she frowned and chewed the end of her silly straw. "I have one with her too... Just... doesn't let me drive." A pout. "Yet." Stubborn arm fold. "He's got another think comin' if he thinks I'll just let him sit back and give me orders like before." A snort.

And Rose groaned, falling over onto the bar with both arms cradling her head again. "It's been an hour and I already miss him!" she whined. "What if he's scared and alone with my Mum of all things?! And he doesn't know the universe, he's rubbish at even pretendin' to be human, I shouldn't be here! He doesn't even know the history of that place, and he's so rude! He's gonna insult all o' Torchwood without me and they're gonna wanna dissect him! I mean, Pete would never allow it, but where's he gonna live? In Pete's mansion?! Even I couldn't stand that! 'Specially not with Tony on the way and--" She silently headdesked into the bar a few more times. "I'm not here because I ran away again, am I?"

"Whoa," she said at the end. "Okay, hold on there. Few things. River isn't a Time Lord, or a time Lady." Apparently saying that and Tardis were okay now. Good to know. "For a while... for a while I think my idiot husband was stupid enough to think that Melody might have been the Doctor's kid, not his. Like I said, idiot. No offense to the Doctor or anything, but once I made up my mind and got married, that was that. Other than an occasional snog, everything, even the hugs were all friendly. Man's my best friend. Besides, The Doctor is more than well aware Rory's spent time as an unstoppable killing machine and is often wearing a sword even if he no longer has a gun in his hand. I don't mean holding one, by the way, I mean like his fingers bent out of the way. Bit creepy really, but I was just so glad he wasn't dead I didn't care."

She shook her head and sipped her wine.

"Not the point. Point is, River is human. More or less. Madam Vastra came to visit for tea once between runs with the Doctor and explained it to us, since she said she was sure he wouldn't have bothered. Didn't ask how they'd gotten to our time, my guess wild be River decided we need to know. Not sure. Anyway, because our wedding night we headed off on the Tardis after the reception, and the Doctor FINALLY had agreed to give us a room with one proper bed, rather than bunk beds... apparently that was enough to give a head start to the possibility. While I was kidnapped, Kovarian did something to her while she was in my womb. And to me. Can't have other kids now. Just River, who I didn't know was mine when I was raising her as Mels." she took some of the bar snacks, just to have something to chew a moment, to give her a moment.

"How River could drive the Tardis... well. Thing is, Kovarian wanted Melody to be an assassin, yeah. But not for Time Lords in general, or something. Just for the Doctor. However long they had her before she regenerated into Mels, I've no idea. I know how River travels in time, I don't know how Kovarian did. And back then River, Melody, Mels, she couldn't either, as far as I know. By the way, in case you were wondering, little girl I shot... Melody." Don't think that hasn't haunted her nightmares for years. She pushed her wine aside and poured herself a tea as well. She wanted to numb the pain, not get stupid drunk.

"So there we were, Mels had just regenerated, kept asking us who River Song was. The Doctor said 'spoilers' which quite frankly has always been a word I've associated with River since that's how she answers most questions. Anyway, that was about when she started trying to kill him. Told us they turned her into a psychopath. It was like watching a high speed game of deadly chess or something. She stole a gun, he stole the bullets, she stole another gun, he swapped it with a banana. And then she kissed him. Some sort of poison that turned off his ability to regenerate. Jumped out a window, told us not to follow. The Doctor told us to go save her. The Teselecta reactivated and went after her, stating that she's the worst war criminal in history, for killing the Doctor. Thing is... Rory and ... we'd seen the Doctor die. We knew this wasn't when it happened. River told us it was a fixed point, had to happen, that we couldn't tell him or try to stop it. I was... bad at both of those. I might have told him accidently. Depends when he switched shoes." She shook her head again. "Teselecta abducted Rory and I to get us out of the way, Then started to torture River. The Doctor showed up to prove he wasn't dead, to save her. But he was dying. Even that stupid tux and cane couldn't save her. I couldn't believe he stopped to change," she said, flatly. Teselecta gave us our rights as family of the accused to speak with her, even took the form of me, which apparently creeped Rory out. He's had nightmares about it, it's cute."

"When the captain decided there was no way he was surviving this, even though they had the same date on their screens that we knew was when he died, they resumed torturing River. We stopped them. I want my own sonic..." she added, absently. Apparently the older version of her had made one, she wished she knew how. "The Doctor was dying, and we were trapped in the Teselecta, that's the first time River Song flew the Tardis. She saved us, because the Doctor begged for help, even though she understood so little at that point. She said the Tardis taught her how to fly her, and that she's the child of the Tardis."

"She brought us to where the Doctor was, and he was still dying." Almost as hard to say as it had been to live through. "He told us there was nothing Rory or I could do, and he asked to speak to our daughter. The Doctor begged River, and Mels was fed up of asking who River was. So I told the Teselecta to transform into River. That was when our daughter looked at us and asked if the Doctor was worth it. We told her yes, yes he very much was. She was still cooking, to use his words, and she used her own regeneration energy to restart his and save his life. The Doctor says she used up all her regenerations in that one go, that she can't regenerate again, but Rule One. The Doctor lies."

She took a long drink of her tea. "Wasn't trying to take the cake, or the prize. Just running with him, that's winning enough for one life. But no, the Doctor here knows I'm called amy now, and that I wasn't when we first met, which is true enough. We had such an argument over my name when he came back. A friend of his here knows my last name is Williams, but I don't really use that much. But given how little attention he gave Rory at the beginning, figured that was safe enough a last name to use. He knows he's my best friend, and that he taught me that no matter what, the Doctor is the Doctor. Different regeneration, Ganger, older or younger. Doesn't matter. That man is still my best friend. Though I'll admit, not nearly so much impulse to snog this one. Not sure if that's the lack of Rory, or something about how sad he always looks. Doctor as I know him is almost never sad and never knowingly serious. I don't know. Doctor I know, all I want to do is take his hand and just keep running. This one... I feel like I should be saving him, not the other way around, if that makes any sense?"

She shook her head. "Two things you said, just can't picture them. The Doctor as suicidal, and the Doctor not letting someone into the Tardis with a Gun. During the whole mess around when I was kidnapped, Rory, the Doctor, and River came to save me, and they could not stop with the flirting about how many of them she was going to shoot stone dead if they attacked. Tied down as I was, kind of thought I was a bit more important than all that, but once the two of them get started...." she shook her head.

"Didn't know he had kids, but that does explain the cot. Only baby cradle that didn't belong to Kovarian that I ever got to set Melody into... he said it was his cot, but didn't say if it was his or his. I thought we were looking at the Doctor's first stars, guess not." Yeah, that was a bit disappointing. "But he was going through this phase then of not telling us things, not answering questions. I wanted to hit him for it."

"Yeah, not sure the Tardis doesn't drive him as well. Having met her, I wouldn't be surprised."

Amy gave Rose a bit of a snort. "Been here a few days, miss Rory like crazy, and River. And the Doctor I know, the face I know best. But you know what Rory and I learned most traveling with the Doctor? You wait long enough, the people you love always come back to you, and they're always worth waiting for. Always. I don't think you ran away if it's any help. Not sure you could run to this place if you wanted to. Still betting you can, just not by accident. See, either the Doctor here will get us all back where and when we belong, or his future self and Rory will show up to do the same. With my luck? He'll park his Tardis inside the other Tardis and the two idiots will have us bouncing back and forth repeating the same words over and over in a loop so they can study the paradox." A small snort of a laugh as something occurred to her. "The paradox of a pair of docs." Maybe she should have switched to tea sooner.

Rose just... began rubbing her temples.

She had already pieced out that the child was River, Amy's daughter, what a mess.

But how does one turn a human into a TimeLord? Or... as close to it to have regeneration and a TARDIS link and time travel and--

Honestly the whole thing made Rose more than a bit queasy.

Should she be glad she missed it?

Or was it because she wasn't there it happened in ways it never would have if she was?

All of it made her feel sick to her stomach, and she wasn't sure it wasn't the three whiskeys, but she wasn't sure it was either.

"The Doctor is the Doctor," Rose muttered numbly.

Was that true?

Was it though?

She'd always felt so, even if she'd forced his regeneration to prove it to her, not trusting the reckless madman who'd replaced her favorite person in the universe to be, the same, even where it mattered most.

But he'd changed. During his times with Martha and Donna. He said Rose made him better, but she hadn't done a god damn thing except keep him from drowning, same as Donna and Martha. And he treated his other self like an accident. Maybe that was really what he learned from in telling Amy about the Gangers. He'd made the mistake of othering himself once before instead of working together.

Rose spluttered, "He flirts over guns?"

She shook her head trying to jolt it and her eyes just widened, "No, hang on, he flirts?!"

She wasn't sure if she was jealous about that. She chewed her lip raw. "THE DOCTOR?!" She didn't even realize how loud she'd yelled it until she clapped both hands over her mouth, looking scandalized. She dropped to a whisper instead. "If you hadn't said he replaced her bullets and then the gun with the banana I wouldn't believe you at all." She shook her head some more, still very quiet nearly whispering. "He really did threaten to push Jack out the airlock if he couldn't stay hands off the guns. 'm pretty sure he got shot in a past life. And Jack...." Rose shook her head. "Everyone flirts with Jack. Hell, even I swooned when I first met him!" Rose held a finger up and sipped some tea. "Only partly because of him," she held her fingers an inch apart. "Jack must'a flirted with him every chance they got. Most I ever saw back was... 'im, the Doctor, just being clever about how he rebuffed him. That was it."

She shook her head thinking harder. The Doctor... flrting. It was like trying to imagine a really sexy Gandalf flirting. Sure, everyone would want him to but...

No wait. There was the time with Reinette. But wasn't that more... Madame du Pompadour flirting with the Doctor???

Rose rubbed her temples and eyebrows. This was on par for the worst day of her life, but with all the good things it was just winding up somewhere in the bar-none-the-longest even that time she condensed a year, 3 dates and trips, and...

Rose snapped her fingers. "I've got it. Cheem. He flirted with a tree woman once. I mean... I thought that was just accidental though. He breathed on her, because we were at this big fancy ceremony and there was an exchanging of gifts so he was giving out... air from his lungs." Just so much much lineface. Rose wonders sometimes why she stuck by him after that. Well, because he was all alone, of course. Same reason she'd even gone with him in the first place. "Anyway she was all," Rose raised her voice to a falsetto and fanned herself with a hand. "'Oooh, how intimate!'" and dropping to a baritone that Amy would probably not even know was supposed to represent the Doctor, not to mention the Northern accent, "'There's more where that came from!'"

Rose rolled her eyes and then frowned. "She asked if I was his concubine," brows constricted, "Or prostitute." She snorted and facepalmed. "And then they ran off to pollinate or whatever. But I think it was just inspecting the things going wrong. Cassandra, this big ol' flap o' skin considered herself the last 'pureblood' human or some rot, she was setting up her stock competitors for compensation money," an eyeroll, but then a soft frown, "After that I think something happened to the tree woman because I didn't see her again and he was really livid."

She rubbed her eyebrows and forehead with the back of her hand. "Most girls he meets except me and Sarah Jane seem to die. And Sarah Jane he ditched and..."

Ugh.

It was like the entire mountain of feelings and depression she'd been fighting off since the first time at Bad Wolf Bay, when he said goodbye, when he said she could never see him again, all returned in a flood. She'd spent years picking herself up and doing what she wanted, what needed to be done anyway in spite of all that and for what?

Just to get stranded again.

She took a deep breath refusing to cry, just listening to Amy.

Her stomach twinged over how sad he was.

She needed to see him.

She couldn't bear to see him.

He'd stranded her twice!!!!!

"He promised never to leave me like Sarah Jane. I promised him forever," she mumbled numbly and sipped her drink. "I'd rather have died than leave his side."

She slumped head into her arms again and looked to the side.

"Nuh-uh," she mumbled and slightly shook her head as much as the arms would allow. "He can't travel parallel universes. They're sealed off, even from him. Part of the other TimeLords being dead and gone." There was a sad smile that just faded into a frown. Wow. She hadn't even realized it until that second, but she'd been hoping with a TimeLord wife and kids then there was a chance she could see him again...

She barely refrained from crying.

It was so stupid. But she'd worked so hard! And for what? Okay sure, saving the multi-verse was its own reward and whatever, but still.

"Every time he's sent me off... he's been planning to die." She ran the back of her her fist across her face, feeling vaguely sniffly in spite of not crying. "Even TimeLords can die and not come back. That's how the Time War ended, yeah?" She blew her cheeks out in a huff and drank her tea. "Seen him drowned, shot, dragged apart all drawn and quartered, --" She cut off and shook her head, realizing belatedly that revealing the ways to kill a TimeLord wasn't something she wanted to do even to Amy whom she trusted completely. There were still mind readers. "I had too much to drink," she admitted reluctantly. "Forget I said that, so no one can try to get it from you. I had Torchwood and TARDIS training for --" she tapped fingers to her temples. "Mental blocks. Pretty much pity anyone tryin' ta get in my head. Hamster dance on endless loop."

She grinned at the pun, Rose loves puns. Because Rose is terrible, and that's okay. "Mmm, I don't think the one with the tie would get along with nearly any of his other versions..." she shook her head fuzzily. "That's not something we actually gotta worry about is it? Two Doctors, not just my Meta-Crisis one I mean?" What kind of universe or place or dimension, was this?

She chuckled. "Yeah, he flirts. He's rubbish at it, so most of the time it's funny, it's like trying to watch a little kid try to figure out what to say to walk the fine line between making someone smack him and making someone smack him. He only gets it right about half the time, though." She grinned. "Never met this Jack, kind of hoping he does show up though." she popped a pretzel in her mouth. "Sounds like he'd be fun to watch. He a good kisser?"

Shame Rory wasn't there when she asked that. She even glanced at the door, as though the question might summon him. She held on to hope. Always had, always will. Not a speck of doubt in her mind, she'd see him again. Probably soon. Till then, this was just one more adventure to talk about over tea or wine in the garden. and she intended to enjoy herself.

"Air from his lungs?" someone was bent over with laughter now. "Seriously, that's his idea of a gift, air from his lungs. Maybe I'm glad now he never bought River a ring, could you just imagine what he'd pick out? Some sort of worm or something..." A ring worm. "Alright. Defiantly sticking to tea for now, or he'll take one look at me and know I was up to something." She was still laughing though. "Hey, ever wonder where exactly his room is? I kind of have this impulse like we should put pudding in his pillow case or something, just to see if this face can overreact like mine can, but for all we've looked, Rory and I could never find a room that was clearly his."

Then she stopped laughing as Rose said the thing about them all dying. "Look, the Doctor's like 1200 or something these days. If he keeps taking up with people like you and me and Rory, of course we all die on him. But he's a time traveler who hates endings. Bet you anything he goes back when he thinks no one will notice and watches us as kids from off in the distance somewhere. We may die, and we may get to the point where he can't run with us anymore, but we're always still within reach for him. Besides, my family, we've gotten a bit more easy going about death. Die a few times, and you stop being afraid of your own death. River even told us once, after we saw him die, the time the space suit shot him... she said that the Doctor's death doesn't scare her, nor does her own, all she had to fear in the whole universe would be the day she went running with him to find he's no clue who she is. Never told her or Rory this, so don't you dare tell them either... but I think that for him, that happened before I ever met him. He knew so little about her when I first met her, at the Byzantine. But I've died now... what... twice? I'd have to count it out. At least twice. Rory... forget trying to count how many time he's died or been unmade. And you said you saw the Doctor die as many times as I have, from the sound of it. Nah, death isn't all that scary. And it sounds like you laid in the same ground work we did, made sure he won't be alone. So long as he isn't alone, he'll be fine. He's the Doctor. He'll sweet off some other girl to have mad adventures, he'll miss us, sure. But he'll be okay, and that's what's important, yeah? The Doctor and the Tarids. The Madman and his beautiful blue box. There isn't a think in any universe he can't do, if he truly sets his mind to it, and stops telling himself he can't. That's what he needs us for, I think. Tell him he can when he thinks he can't, and stop him when he knows he can but he really shouldn't."

"Never had training for mental blocks, but if anyone wants to try and root through my head, good luck to them," she said with a laugh. "So many timelines that never were, deaths that un-happened, people I remember that never existed, and cold hard facts that the Doctor remembers that un-happened so I never experienced them. He wanted to know why I didn't recognize a Dalek on sight the first time, spun some story about how there should be ducks in the duck pond and a sky full of Daleks." She shrugged. "Never saw a thing, neither did Rory or Mels." Though she had a theory on why. Too bad her theory didn't work on a fundamental level. She chalked it up to the Doctor being the Doctor, ultimately.

"Oh, it's happened. Was amusing in hindsight, less so at the time. Basically, lesson learned. When the Doctor lets some bloke - in this case, my husband at least - help fly the Tardis, remember the floors are made of glass before deciding to wear a short skirt. Rory wound up parking the Tardis inside the Tardis. Doctor had to go into the inner Tardis to pop back in through the main doors to tell him which lever to use to keep us all from blowing up when he controlled an implosion or explosion, or something. Sorry, ran that look maybe a half dozen times, still doesn't make sense to me. Early days of running with him. I s'ppose I'd be better able to follow it now. Not sure."

"That sounds like the Doctor," Rose said of him flirting, though she still couldn't really imagine it. Blowing air on people.

"Yeah! I'd love to see Jack again, ask 'im more about Torchwood and the rest. If I'd known the Doctor was gonna just dump me in the other universe, I'd have tried to take more outta Jack being there. " A small facepalm, "The Doctor and Mickey aren't the only ones locked a universe away from me now." Donna, Martha, seriously what was the point of everything she went through?

Well.

Saving multiple universes, yes. She'd been prepared to die... just... not to come back. Ironically.

"Ummmm," was Jack a good kisser? "Well, he kissed me and the Doctor right before he left to go die versus the daleks. Um, that was before I saw the Doctor regenerate into the tie and fluffy hair version here? But I was kind of too surprised to make a lot of it..." Meta-Crisis Doctor was a much better kisser, but the contexts were completely different. And Jack was... She didn't have words for Jack, that's why she just called him a flirty Captain. Jack was Jack. He was to be experienced onto himself. "But I'd say so." Then again Rose was a soft judge, especially for people she loved. She fell over into giggles, "The last time I did see him, just a few hours ago, mind," more giggles, "The Doctor wouldn't even let him say hello to anybody! Just every time he tried, the Doctor was all," attempts to be serious and Doctor-y again, "Stop it." A grin, "So I guess he must'a adventured with him when I was still a parallel universe away. Shame I missed that. He, the Doctor, left Jack in the future when he regenerated. Said he, Jack, wanted to stay behind and clean up the mess there from the daleks and stuff."

She drank some tea. "I really missed him. I wonder how he found 'im again. He dropped 'im off in the 20th century with Micks and Martha, and Sarah Jane. Before Bad Wolf Bay." Her face still fell at the name.

"Yup! Air from his lungs!" Rose giggled. And chewed her bottom lip. Nah, the Doctor knew about Earth customs enough for rings. He...

Her face fell over again and she debated the alcohol but she was beyond as numb as she could get at this point so, just stirred a chip in salt and pepper and asked for vinegar to go with 'em.

"No. He had a ring when I... when we got separated the first time." Her face was stoic, numb. But inside she could rewind every milisecond of that day. "He sent me to Pete's Universe with my Mum and Micks, and I came back even though he told me not to and my Mum was gonna kill me and I wouldn't be able to see her again." She clenched her jaw.

Why didn't he get it yet?

Or did he?

Maybe he did, and this was just his way of sacrificing what he wanted, and just wanted to trick Rose into wanting something different which still made her just as mad, but what was she supposed to do?

Grrrrrrrrrrrr.

At least, again the rage and fire helped quench the pain.

Her voice was still numb. "He was sucking daleks back into the void. That's why you should'a seen 'em. They were all over the world. The ghosts which were cybermen from Pete's World, and the daleks which got opened up, um, it was a TimeLord prison of them, so... millions." Deep breath. "I helped him, the Doctor close the gates, but I couldn't hold onto the lever so I was gonna get sucked into the void too, but at the last second, Pete knew to catch me. I don't know how I knew, if just Mum made him go back or it was Bad Wolf. Think it was Bad Wolf probably."

She waved a hand, and stuffed some chips in her mouth, feeling slowly better about the whole thing. "But he -- the Doctor yeah? -- still had his ring in his pocket from when we...." She gulped down air, closed her eyes, looking up and just... gods she hated him.

She couldn't finish the thought. Explain the importance. She'd never told anyone. Not even Mickey. Certainly not her Mum.

She just left it there and focused on everything else.

"Yeah, I know his room." That wasn't helping. At all. "He doesn't sleep much though." But she grinned anyway at the idea of putting pudding in his pillowcase. "The TARDIS won't let you find it unless she wants you to," she explained quietly, stirring the silly straw in her tea. "Which was how I found it..." she winced and laughed, "That sounds really dirty!" she held up a hand quickly, "But I swear it's not! He was just having a bad night one time." Counting the children lost on Gallifrey. Something Rose would never tell a soul.

"1200, yeah?" She smiled softly, and melted onto her arms with a happy sigh. "That's... wonderful," she explained, "'e was only 900 when I met him. I thought maybe somethin' bad 'appened to Donna. I mean yeah, he'll outlive us but that... it usually gets cut way even shorter than that. I was only with him a few years," a quiet admittance. She gulped quietly though. Maybe he didn't even remember her now. Wouldn't have the faintest idea why she was mad. Ack. She needed to find out when the sad Doctor here in Genessia was from timeline-wise.

Rose shook her head though. "No, him dying still scares me. Even after all those times. Because there's a lot he can't regenerate from, and... worse." She bit her bottom lip so hard it began to bleed, her voice dropping to a whisper. "I'm scared he'll give up. Or become what he hates most of all."

"You've died?" Rose was shocked, and tilted her head, wondering how the Doctor undid that. "I nevar have. Close shaves, yeah. Even closer with the void thing," a wince. "The nothingness between the universes... no time no air, no thought... I did... fall into the vortext once, but I was fine because, I didn't know it at the time, but Bad Wolf. But not even TARDIS's or timelords can navigate the void and Bad Wolf... only barely worked in Pete's universe. Enough to connect the two universes, and I hope... enough to work the new TARDIS if that works. Maybe enough to call me back if he really needs me. Or can use me again.... though probably only if all the universes are dying."

Rose listened to the rest and just trailed off quietly. "More the stopping I've found." But she giggled at the end. "He told Micks to hold down this button and then him, the Doctor and I, got all distracted talking about things and he forgot to tell him he could stop holding down the button, half an hour later, we wound up outside the universe, and in Pete's world."

"Oh, well, The Doctor getting irritated at other people flirting's a constant. He only seems ta like it when he does it. He ever yell at you for flirting with himself? Little snot called it true love at last, and my husband just stood there and let him." She eyed the wine feeling both that she's had too much and really wanted more. She frowned at the bottle and settled for another sip of tea and a pretzel.

"I caught the Doctor with a ring once. But it doesn't count. Turns out it was mine. My stupid husband was always afraid if I wore my ring while we were running around I'd lose it, always fretting about how expensive it was. Moron. Course when he fell through a crack in the universe, ring only survived because it was in the Tardis, probably. I didn't understand why the ring made me feel so sad when I found it, like a great big hole had been cut out and I didn't know why or what was missing."

Forget the tea. She poured herself another glass of wine and offered the bottle to Rose wordlessly. Conversations like this needed the distance wine gave, even if it was making her words come out a bit odd and her memory a bit of a jumble. Jumble of memories.... She might be missing some, but other things she usually forgot were in her mind. Or... were they?

"Got a marker?" she asked, looking around the bar, suddenly very still and afraid. Something she should remember but shouldn't. Were they there? Had she seen one and just forgotten? Or was the wine messing with her stomach? She knew she wasn't pregnant again. But she also knew she shouldn't have had so much wine when she'd skipped lunch. And, well, breakfast.

She shook her head, trying to clear it. "What? Oh, I don't mind you knowing where his room is. I'm his mother-in-law, not his wife. And my guess is you're either before or after River's time, or River made her peace with you in her own way. Gods know she's not the jealous type. I mean, I marry one monarch by accident on my anniversary, does my husband ever let me live it down? Nope. But River and the Doctor? She told me once they wound up marrying the same woman at different points. She certainly didn't get that from her dad. But tell you what, if it doesn't bother River," she sipped her wine. "Not going to bother me, just glad he had someone when he needed you." She stopped, considered. "Might feel different when I'm sober though," she warned in fairness.

Oh. Rose thought that was how old he was when she met him. Whoops? 900 when she knew him? Whoooooboy. Okay, she wasn't going to correct that mistake. She hadn't lied. And misleading her had been accidental, so nothing to blame, yeah? And what could would saying that he was 903 at Lake Silencio the second time do but upset the other girl. God. This must be what it's like to be River. No wonder she was always shooting people. amy took another long drink of her wine.

"He won't give up, not so long as he isn't alone. And he won't be. Universe is full of people almost literally dying to run with the Doctor." She remembered the soldier, took another sip. "Forget the almost."

"Yeah, I've died," she said with a shrug, considered how much wine was left in the bottle, and the two of them. And then thought about how bad it would be if she told all of this to the Doctor cause she was too drunk to remember why that was stupid. She'd only ever gotten really drunk two or three times in her life. And last time she was this bad... was when she thought he was dead, well and truly dead. She sighed and called out for a pair of coffees, and then some food after another moment's thought.

"Well, let's see, there was the time Rory shot me dead. Didn't mean to, he was kind of plastic at the time. I mentioned that, yeah? The Nestine or Nequick or whatever. Then there was the time the Doctor accidently abandoned me in a place where plague victims went to live out a life time in the day it took them to die. Horrid place. I mean, probably really lovely if you had the plague and were from that world, but all the handbots - these medical robots - They were sure I needed a shot to cure me of being, well, human. Was there 40 years by the time the Doctor and Rory found me. They used the communications glass that split the times to see back to the past, to when I'd just gotten there. Old me didn't want to save me, said that when she was me, the old me then had refused. But the Doctor says there's this thing, where I always get what I want, yeah? Well, I talked her into helping me, but the deal was that we both come in the Tardis. Rory... could have looked a little less happy about the thought of two of us, honestly. One of the handbots got me, this me, and I passed out. Woke up in the Tardis, all I know is the other me died. Not sure how or why. they wouldn't tell me." she scowled at that. "Oh, not sure if it counts when I drove us off that cliff or we crashed into that negative star. I wonder if Rory counts those as deaths... Not sure, since the Doctor died with us and didn't even try to regenerate. Felt real enough at the time, though. Oh, and the Doctor killed my Ganger. Felt that. I think he tried to be gentle, felt it all the same."

She laughed. "Oh god, he did that to Brian. Told him to watch the cubes, then we wound up dealing with Unit, and things were a mess, and finally the Doctor decided he couldn't handle sitting in our lounge one more moment. Quick trip to restore sanity, he said." she thanked the person who brought their coffees and sipped hers. "Ugh, going to have to get a job at this rate, we stay much longer." she shook her head. "Anyway, Doctor said that he had to pop off for a brief jaunt, and we followed him into the Tardis," as you do "and there was Brian. The Doctor asked him what he was doing, and Brian said that the Doctor had asked him to watch the cubes. Doctor pointed out, or...maybe it was Rory? Maybe it was me? Can't remember. Anyway, one of us pointed out it was four days. Brian hadn't even noticed. We made him stay with us after that, so we could keep an eye on him, you know. And he spent every day watching those cubes. I think if Rory and I hadn't taken him food and tea he'd never remember to eat. Need to talk to the Doctor about being a bit more careful what he says to Brian in the future."

"Uuuuuuuuuuuummmmmmmm........" Rose laughed at the idea of the Doctor telling her off for flirting with... anyone. "Nooooo," slow and drawn out and more giggles. "If anything..." He spoiled her rotton and she loved it. "I mean I don't know you could do what he calls flirting back, but probably?" She scrunched her face up. "I don't really know how to explain it. But..." she's never doubted he loves her. Just that he couldn't say it. And literally couldn't, twice now in an absolutely last chance situation before parallel universes divided them forever. "I mean, no matter how much he can blend in, which isn't well, mind, he's still pretty alien, yeah?" She shook her head. "More like push'n'pull, yeah? He'd do thinks like bring my ex on board, but say he missed when it was just the two of us, him and me the way it should be." She shrugged. "Complicated."

Rose took the wine bottle and dug into her jeans pockets for a felt tip pen. "Best I got," she offered quietly. Just don't ask why she has it. Mostly for grafitti-ing "Bad Wolf" places.

She didn't pour herself anymore though, nor Amy who seemed at least as fuzzy as her too. Good drinking partner, but probably not enough like Jack to remind her to be in her own proper bed at a proper hour. Or at least... the Jack version of those both.

"I dunno, the Doctor and I never really..." she gestured feebly and sighed. "That's how the Metac-Crisis got me to stay. In my -- Pete's Universe, with my Mum. The worst day of my life, even worse than all the times watching him die because I knew what to do then, was when he actually said goodbye. He nevar says goodbyes. Hates them and endings maybe as much as I do." She held her fingers apart slightly and sipped the whiskey swirling it in her mouth before the burn was too much and she swallowed. "Almost. Probably less for him." She nodded. She really hated them more than him, she was sure. Because he was older and had to deal with them more often, and for Rose it was so larger than life in the moment, and she couldn't see into the distant future, everything was just right then and there. "I told him I loved him on that beach, even though he was just a hologram and told me I couldn't see him again without destroying two universes."

Ugh.

Ugh.

She finished off the third whiskey sour and completely cut herself off, napkin over the glass, and then just upending it, just in case.

"He started to--" She shook her head. "But he ran out of time. On the beach again, when they wanted me to stay, Meta-Crisis said the words, and the Doctor ran away." She shrugged and rubbed between her eyes.

As for millions of people dying to run with the Doctor... Rose just shook her head. "He only takes the best. And I don't know about yours but he doesn't sound that much more social than the ones I met. He wouldn't deal with most people if someone didn't drag him out there. Just hide away grumpy in his box for a couple hundred years tinkerin'. Pete, my sorta-Dad, is like that too. But my Mum's a real force of will. You'd either hit it off smashingly or tear each other apart. I think I'd wanna be there for that one too." But... "But thanks. Yeah. You're right. No sense in doubtin' him until he does something' stupid and then just deal with it when it happens right?" After all, before seeing him drown and the rest, Rose would never have expected that.

As for the deaths... Rose's eyebrows just arched. Weird. So weird. She shuddered slightly. "Still think I owe you cake for all that," she giggled finally. "We had the glass walls refracting time too once. But it was all focused on Madame du Pompadour. No idea why." She chewed her bottom lip. "That was another who died he couldn't bring with him, like Jabe." More headshakes. Sad things. All of them.

At the story of Brian, Rose fell apart into giggles. "Poor man," she murmured quietly. "He must have incredible focus. What happened with the cubes?"

Sipping her own tea, Rose held up a finger, "I wanna Torchwood some more... I was gonna... at least I was trying to decide on that in the hour since I got left in the wrong universe," a quiet snort. "But seems like theres a lot of nonhumans and amalguous -- amalga-- Amala???" Rose whined and rubbed her eyes. "Lots of tech from total culture clashes. Worse'n Krillitanes. I gotta remember to ask the Doctor about that!" She grabbed back the felt pen, and wrote 'Krillitanes' on the top of her hand, and then after a small hesitation doodled 'Bad Wolf' in there as well. For good measure. "What'd you do between travelin' with the Doctor? Anything? I mean. When I was with him I didn't. But I had just as many years in between when I was searchin' for him so yeah." She snorted quietly.

"Nestene Consciousness, yeah? Living plastic? That's how he and I met. He blew up the store I was working at, and was gonna die when the Nestene Conscious captured him and the TARDIS so I had to rescue him. Fair turnabout really. I didn't actually... I said no the first time he asked me to go along. I was still seein' Micks at the time, and Micks has been kidnapped by the Nestene Consciousness to use him for puppetry and so he was really freaked out, yeah? But he came back a second time and just.... I could see how lonely he was, and all my life all I ever wanted was adventure and runnin'." She laughed and shook her head. "I ran away from home once before, yeah? When I was sixteen, missed my A-levels to join a deadbeat rocker I thought would make it big in the grunge scene." A quiet snort and an eyeroll before she put her fingers over her lips.

"Shhhhhh. That's secret in Pete's Universe. Pete's like this multi-million-billionaire, invents all kind of stuff, Vitex marketer, think like Steve Jobs in the Doctor's Universe, yeah? But with soda pop gatorade-powerade to fund it. S'why he took over Torchwood. My alternate universe Mum, they never had kids in that one, but the Jackie there got turned into a--" she falters slightly, scrunching her face up to analyze the danger and rummages through her pocket for anti-scanner-bug. She doesn't know if it'll work here, but it makes her feel better. "Cyber-person." Because most people keyword searching weren't clever enough to account for similar variations. "Micks hijacked the emotional override codes, but we couldn't save her." She chewed her bottom lip. "And then that incident with the daleks in the sky that you shouldn't have missed, my Mum ran into that Peter Tyler and barely a few months in the world," Rose snapped her fingers, "She up and gets pregnant with the baby brother I always wanted." A small snort. "You'd have liked it. I messed with the Doctor's head for a little bit, let him think I was the pregnant one." She rolled her eyes.

"I don't much fit in there though," she chewed her bottom lip in thought. Finally confessing the biggest part weighing on her personally. "I'm really really really happy for 'em. All of 'em. But 'm still mad at my Mum too. She went world travelin' with Mickey's help even though Pete and the Doctor forbade all o' us." She knuckled her eyebrows. "But since I'm the one who broke the rule first, even to save the universes, I'm the one gettin' punished for it. I'm supposed to be some big heiress there, and well... Look at me!" Rose laughed and shook her head. "I mean luckily, I could keep my history mostly the same, they just had to pretend to find me, that I was takin' care of my Mum between the Cyber-attack incident and then. But I basically had to get written into their lives. TW has the access at least to make up all the right paperwork, but it wasn't even like Mickey. At least he had a real life there. Family, and his counterpart's friends."

Rose shook her head and burrowed it into her folded arms on the table. "The only thing I ever was good at was that job. And I basically created it for myself." She chewed her bottom lip more, but refusing to feel sorry for herself, "Still wanna make Pete proud if he shows up like Rory and River. I don't want him askin' what I've been doin' myself here or thinkin' I could'a done better if I was so boy-crazy or whatever." Huff.

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