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[bigbadrose]

Hey so, bit of a weird question. Anyone here ever heard of Torchwood, and could maybe point me how to get back to contacting the local branch? That'd be really handy, yeah?

Year and star system coordinates would also be fantastic, but I'm not holdin' my breath waitin'.

[Bites her bottom lip in thought.]

[She doesn't even know which universe this is. Much less how she got here without a dimension cannon or where everyone she was with went. Maybe they're here. But then maybe even saying their name depending on the universe is dangerous. Luckily, she's had 5+ years (give or take for literal dimension rewinds and time in the vortex) of experience in learning how to do codes.]

Here's a fairytale you've probably never heard before.

Once upon a time there was a big bad wolf. She wandered a city of metal filled with metal men. [Too dangerous to even say the world cyberman until she learned more!] She thought she was on a mission to hunt down her lost prince. But she was actually on a mission to find home. Bit like Dorothy from Wizard of Oz if you know it. And one day she met a man who wasn't a prince at all. He was a very brainy professor. There was even another man who started off as a mouse but turned into a lion full of courage, saving worlds he never even knew existed. And a really flirty captain who was probably too pretty for his own good. They weren't off to find a wizard. Just a blue box.

The big bad wolf ran away from home and her pack over and over and over again, but no matter how many times she ran, and how many new friends she made or which universe she fell into, something was always calling her back. 'Pparently you can't escape your family that easily. That or the Big Bad Wolf's mum was seriously terrifying and would fight a werewolf for diamonds and totally win.

Thanks for listening, Ta!

Comments

[bigbadrose]

"Having to have jobs is confusing and makess no sense!" Rose insisted. And sipped her tea. "My Dad. Pete, StepDad, kinda. It's like... a mess because if you gave us a paternity test I'd be his, but I grew up in another universe where he died." Yeah. "He just invents stuff and then does what needs doin'. Makes way more sense," Rose insisted stubbornly and nommed on a chip. "They wanted me to sell Vitex, that's like this bubbly pop drink stuff he makes money for the inventions and Torchwood from. And I was just like... no way. Only real job I was willin' to do was workin' in Torchwood on somethin' real. Tinkerin' and testin' his stuff and alien interviews and not..." She made a face. "Wearing a tiara and tryin' ta be a pop star... Ugh." She was forever grateful that both her parents backed away from the suggestion and stood by it. She'd have probably run away again if they hadn't.

Well...

She ran away anyway...

but it was different.

Rose snorted quietly and closed her eyes. "I asked him to bring along Micks' my boyfriend, then ex, and he always said no. I got him to bring along this bloke named Adam because I was stupid and daft, and he reminded me of a young doctor, said he wanted to see the stars, so I thought we could yanno, show 'im the stars. Dumb mistake." Eyeroll. "The Doctor was right, he spent too long with his douchebag boss, thinkin' it was better to catalog alien stuff and make a profit of it, no real love of adventure." She chewed her bottom lip. "He said... he only brings the best. That's why he had me." She looked away distantly. "I asked him to bring Jack, Sarah Jane, one of his old... assistants I think she called it? And by then I was so done with Micks, and the next thing I know Micks wanted to come. And then he was gonna go back to get Madamae Pompadour, but something happened, either she changed her mind or couldn't or died...." Rose sighed quietly and rubbed between her eyes.

"Then after I fell into Pete's world, there was Martha, she's brilliant she is, and Donna, who... I just love Donna. She deserves only the best and all the happiness and then some, yeah?" She rubbed the back of her neck. "Thing is, it's like he said. He only brings along the best. So if he didn't think Rory was worth it, he wouldn't. Not even with the house or baby or..."

Rose twirled a straw in her tea. "See here's the thing, right? Even though it took me a long time to figure out... the people who came before weren't as close to him either. He didn't keep in touch, he never went back to see 'em again. He dropped off this metal dog, and I mean, yeah he loves that dog," Rose rolled her eyes. "K-9. Very disco. He left 'im with Sarah Jane. But he never said a word to her. Just let her think he died in the Time War." Rose winced quietly, "He ever mention... that?"

"Gotcha. Sketch marks are bad," Rose shrugged, but made note of it all the same. If she'd met them... she didn't remember it, but apparently that was how they worked.

"Violence. He doesn't like... wanting to kill. He's very protective, but," Rose held up her fingers, "Fine..." she tried to not cry, and just swallowed the lump in her throat, refusing out of sheer stubbornnes again. "Edge." Another gulp. "That's... that's why he was so... cruel to his own self! Because he got rid of the daleks. He said they were too dangerous to leave, especially on the edge of the universe where they might by able to take over time an'..." She drank her tea and shook her head. "I don' get it. I don' understand. How he can be so cold to -- no wait, yeah, of course I do. No one hates themselves as much as the Doctor. He always said that was what made the daleks even more dangerous too. When they learned to hate themselves like people." She shuddered, folded her arms and rested them around her head.

Maybe he was right.

Maybe. "He said I made him better. That I should do that for MetaCrisis too. But I didn't do anything. I was just there. Which is what he meant too. But now I'm not so I guess I'm failin' him already, yeah?"

She was too tired and bitter to care much.

"Micks isn't so bad. Micks is great. Micks just actually does want that white picket fence kind'a life." Rose wrinkled her nose. "I can' stand it. Even as a teen, s'why I ran off lookin' for adventure anyway. I wanted to a rocker groupee. Or a dancer. Just anythin' other than stuck where I was doin' the usual work, beans on toast, an' home thing, yeah?" She shuddered again and laughed. "This one time, we wound up on the Weakest Link, in like the year... 200,000 somethin'. And they had a robot for Anne. Called the Anne-droid. Get it?" A giggle snort. "And even that far in the future pretty much everyone called my travelin' bein' a homeless bum. Not like I care. I loved it. Really did. In Pete's Universe... I grew up on Estates with Mum. Single Mum because Dad died, Estates kid with me and Mickey. But in Pete's Universe he was really rich and it was heiress and whatever... and I think I nevar wanted to run away harder," she admitted with a soft growl.

Liking work more than the Doctor.

Another anathema to Rose. But she sort of understood what Amy meant. "You should get a job you can do when you're with 'im then. I dunno if one like that exists. I only got into Torchwood because... it was like I was seein' myself disconnected from my body thing. I could see how miserable and pathetic and not me it was. Just tryin' to get through until he could find me. So I started workin' on findin' my own way, defendin' the Earth myself, and doin' all the things I'd have done if he was just stranded there, yeah? But it was stuff to help me in travelin' too. Because otherwise I'd go mad. Never once did I think I wouldn't be back out there again. I don't think I could have done any of it otherwise."

Rose actually choked on her tea about the dalek in an apron serving tea. "What?" she shook her head and rubbed her face. "That's... no??? How?"

As for Amy being pregnant, Rose shrugged. "Maybe. Dunno. Once I could'a told you exactly what he was thinkin' and not sayin' from his face alone. Now... it feels like it's so far away." She laughed, but she felt like sobbing. "Even when I was dealin' with his deaths, it didn't feel so distant..." she shook her head, just wondering it at all. It wasn't bad though. It was good. She didn't need to worry about her Doctor as much as she though. He'd be all right.

"Oh, I'm gonna. Feel kinda bad for Meta-Crisis though. In his proper universe, the Doctor thinks he knows the whole of history perfectly and what's right or wrong in it and tries to get it right, but in Pete's Universe? I don't think much is the same. Music, pop culture, that's all different, and the tie Doctor loves to make references. Lion King, Ghostbusters, Hobbit -- no wait, that was me. Whatever. You know I don't even know if Pete's Universe has Harry Potter? Travesty that."

She shook her head. "Timelords only live in one universe. The Doctors'. And the last act of the Time War before destroyin' em, was sealing all of the parallel universes away, walled off permanently." Rose winced. "I kind of... Fused my soul with the TARDIS one time, so....." tea sip. "I was able to leave clues in the teeniest tiniest cracks even he and the TARDIS couldn't find. Did stuff not even TimeLords could do if they were still around. But since he's the last, he really can't break through."

"Yeah. If you and Rory are there, I'll definitely find ya again. It'll be fun!" Rose sipped her tea and frowned. "But it won't be you." She looked off distantly.

The offer... broke her heart. But Rose smiled all the same. "Thank you." Her eyes shone. What could she say? She didn't have it in her to explain it couldn't happen. That the only way back was to destroy things she promised to protect. That it really was forever. That Amy wouldn't remember this place....

And Rose was all too used to that. Donna didn't remember her either. Maybe her face. HOPEFULLY Bad Wolf.

And that was just how it went. She'd re-befriended Jack and his Torchwood team a dozen times. Sarah Jane. Harriet Jones.

But Rose was a ghost. Traveling unseen in the crack of very reality.

[im_with_stupid]

"Jobs do make sense, If everyone ran off gadding about, we'd never get to do it, and here'd be traffic in the time vortex," she said with a laugh. Okay maybe she was a weeeee bit too drunk. "And actually, modeling ain't a bad gig if you like traveling. Not as exciting as all of time and space, but keeps you from gathering dust, and there are parts of our own world just as interesting as some of the space stations and things he's taken us to. And you can find trouble and adventure anywhere."

Rory will probably never admit it, but I think he loves the running almost as much as I do. All the adventure and new places. Not so much the dying."

The Doctor just... left them? That had been Amy's fear for a while now. That one day he would just... stop coming back. She looked down poking through the junk food mix. Not to eat any just... poking at it, moving her finger through it. She more or less missed the question about the Time War.

"The Dream Lord...." she muttered hearing Rose talk about how much he hates himself. She shook her head. "Like I said, that's why he needs us. I thought he was so angry the first time we met the Daleks, kicked one down the hall for offering him tea." Speaking of she sipped hers. "But Mercy was worse. He'd been on his own for a while between visits. Not sure how long, but I won't let him be alone that long again. I won't, I'll find a way. The sight of him drawing that line..." she shook her head. "And yeah, the man he was going after.... I could see how he could have seen himself in Jex. And it was the angriest I think I've ever seen him."

"We'll get you back, and you will be. But time travel, we can have fun first. We had maybe a year of adventure, maybe more, all in the night before my wedding. And if you can talk to Idris" she's drunk enough to not realize what she called the Tardis "Then maybe for once we can wind up when we mean to."

"I love running with the Doctor, but to me, it's not running away. I only want to run away sometimes, but not from life. More... More I feel like I'm running to, not from, you know?"

"Not sure there is any job I could do while traveling with him. Considering we never know how long we'll be gone. Sometimes it's months that feel like moments, sometimes it's moments that feel like months. Horrible on deadlines."

Oh she was grinning now. "I am your servant," she imitated, laughing. "Having seen them after.... I don't know, maybe just my luck, I keep getting the insane Daleks," she said, with a laugh. She stirred her tea then licked off the spoon as she grinned.

"I've never been able to tell what he's thinking, for what it's worth."

Okay, sorry, Amy is going to burst out laughing now. "Oh, the list of the things he always thinks he knows could paper the London Eye thrice over. Doesn't mean he ever actually knows anything."

"Again, my whole life was dotted with cracks in the universe. Things have seeped through plenty. Fish vampires in venice."

She reached over and gave her hand a comforting squeeze.

[bigbadrose]

"Nah, none o' that makes sense," Rose giggled. "Things like office jobs or accounting. I get some things. My Dad's inventing, and even the selling Vitex, but I mean... Vitex." Rose made a face, and waved the bartender to see if they had the stuff here, and was frankly relieved they didn't, just getting more tea.

"It's like vitamin water that tastes like Pop. It's not like the world's a better place for it anythin', right? And modelin' for that stuff?" Rose shook her head. "No way." She giggled intensely. "Besides I don't exactly have the legs for it. You're like... an Amazon or somethin'. I mean if I was more into photography, I'd definitely wanna take your picture. You have that look. But it's like pony vs. racehorse, yeah?" More giggles.

"Ummmm," Rose sucked on and twirled her straw. "Yes, and no... on the leavin' thing. It's... he's different now. Way different if he got you a house and went there. First thin' he told me? He doesn't do domestics. Mum wanted him to stay for dinner after that missin' year and him savin' our lives and preventin' nuclear world war three. And he was just so desperate to run away again. Trust me, if he's come and stayed for dinner? You're already way different than everyone he ever used to travel with. Dunno if that's me, Donna, or just you and Rory, but it sounds like he got a bettah idea what he wants outta life, yeah? He did drop Sarah Jane off though. Wrong town, and never came back for her, but back then... I think he was scared."

Rose took a deep breath and buried her head in her arms again. "No. I know he was. That's why... I'm mad at him I suppose. Because he let the fear of me dyin', of 'im outlivin' me, just destroy anytime we would had together otherwise. Chose to stick me someplace he can always remember me exactly as I was, tell himself I'd be happy, and then no way o' checkin' on me."

She pushed herself up and pushed her hair back with a hand. "If he cared enough, that wouldn't matter right? Or if he was braver or... hell I don't know what else. Maybe it shouldn't matter to me. Maybe I should just let it go. Let him go."

Rose snorted. "Kickin' down doors is nuffin' for him with daleks. They killed all his people. All the TimeLords. Were gonna destroy the whole universe... would too if he didn't stop 'em. He wasn't angry when I was captured by the Dalek Emperor. Scared, but determined. Looks good on him. But the first dalek I met... was my fault. I revitalized it. It asked if I was scared, and they were torturin' it alive, and I wasn't, I was worried for it, but all the others had been afraid of it, even with it chained up and the rest, so it used my DNA to rescramble, but the Doctor said it got a little too changed, stop bein' dalek. So when it tried to shoot me, it couldn't. The Doctor though... he was definitely gonna shoot it. When it was changin' and everythin'." Rose shook her head. "He was scared then too, but it wasn't a good look for him. S'why..." another deep breath she let out very slowly. "S'why the tie doctor left his MetaCrisis with me. 'e said he, the human version needed me, and he was too dangerous in his main universe. He killed all the daleks again. Whole billions and billions army in the Medusa Cascade, barrier between the universes, on the very edge of time itself and removed from it. Still would rather deal with him angry than my Mum. She slapped him." Shakes her head. "Still can't get over that."

Rose smiled softly at the hand squeeze and gave a small one back. "Maybe I can use those cracks then. S'what I do. Travel in them. Bad Wolf. What're fish vampires? That's a new one on me."

[im_with_stupid]

"Hey, if no one works in HR, no one is sending out the checks to pay the rest of us. Besides, I think everyone's got some job out there they're really love. The hard trick is finding it. Rory found it right off. Maybe it was all my talking about the Doctor when we were kids, but long as I could remember, he's wanted to be a nurse." Hindsight, that should have given her quite a few clues. Didn't. Shame, that.

"Everyone wants to take my picture," she said with a grin. "But I'd say more like a panther and a wolf. You've got your own beauty, kid, don't compare it to mine." She shook her head then braced on the bar. Yep, definitely a bit too much wine, there. "You've got the whole blond cheerleader thing going for you. Perky and cheerful and bubbly. I grew up ginger in Leadworth. With this accent. Well, it was thicker when I was a kid, I guess, but not by much."

"Maybe it's different face? Dunno. I mean, Mels.... God. Mels could not ever keep out of trouble. Rory and I were always bailing her out of one mess or another. Literally once she swapped detention for juvie. She was running late, so she, as she put it, took a bus. She stole a bus. Because she was running late. Always always getting herself in trouble, needing someone to bail her out. As River? She busts herself out of jail whenever she gets bored. Her idea of needing a rescue is giving the Doctor coordinates so she can jump out of a spaceship or off a building to land in the Tardis." Could it really be that she was that special? Nah. Had to be a change in him. Had to be.

"We all get scared," Amy said with a shrug. "Serves that he should too. And we all do stupid things when we're scared. I... might have driven off a cliff. Whole other story. Anyway... Yeah, if he dropped you there because he's stupid scared, we'll set him straight, find a way to make things work somehow." Total drunk confidence. Sadly, she'd have the same confidence sober.

"Hey," Amy said gently, a hand on Rose's shoulder. "Listen. We're all brave in different ways, but even the bravest of us get scared sometimes. And sometimes... the more scared we are to lose a thing, the more it means we love that thing, and that's something."

Did... that make sense? She wasn't sure.

"Daleks." She sighed a bit and stirred her tea. "You know, one Dalek once said to him that maybe the reason they can never find it in themselves to finish him off is cause they find his hatred too beautiful. But...." She leaned back. "Well, thing is, they don't remember him any more. Guess that puts him in as much danger from them as the rest of us. Apparently he got erased out of their hive mind or whatever." She wanted more wine. Tens of thousands of Daleks, trying to figure out who we were, what the Tardis was and what we were doing on their ship right after one of their planets exploded. And they were the ones who sent us down in the first place."

Amy snorted. "Your mum slapped him? So did River. Not sure I like that comparison. Rory decked him once. Told me about it later. Apparently the Doctor wanted him to. To prove he was human enough."

She nodded. "There you go. Corse you can. You find those cracks and you use them to come on home. Of course, you do that and you bring the other Doctor, you will have to bring him to meet River in Jail. Maybe that's the birthday she told Rory about."

"Venice. They came through one of the cracks. Big freaky fish aliens that decided it was better to let people think they were vampires than tell the truth. Tried to turn me into one, in fact." She pulled down the collar. "You can still see the hickey." There was nothing there. But she was drunk. And amusing herself.

[bigbadrose]

"Yeah?" Rose arched her eyebrows and softened them. "He sounds like a really great guy." A small snicker. "Must have drove the Doctor nuts. He likes to have all the attention in any given room." Although maybe that had changed. Or maybe it had been different for Rose. So many questions. She waved a hand with a silly straw. "Micks had no idea what he wanted to do. Even worse than me. He was always aces with computers and cars though, so he fell into car repair and hacking, saved the universes more times 'n I can count with that. He was always settlin' though, yeah? Just wanted quiet, boring. Minimal. I couldn't do it. Felt bad for 'im, actually. I'd been seein' him when I ran off with Jimmy. And he still was just so glad I came back." She chewed her bottom lip. "Then when I was gone for the year, my Mum had him arrested," she held up four fingers. "Four times. And my friend Keisha got her friends to jump 'im comin' out," she shook her head. "Definitely couldn't blame him when he decided to stick behind in my Dad's universe. Now? He's taken off again, back to the Doctor's and Jack's and..." she shook her head and bit her bottom lip. "I didn't say goodbye. I didn't think to. I thought the only one wouldn't be seein' anymore was my Mum." She rolled her shoulders gently. It was just as well. She hated goodbyes as much as endings. But she hated them for the finality of it, and this was just as final.

Rose focused back on the model and cheerleader comment and shook her head with a laugh. "Okay you can be Posh Spice--" She crinkled her nose, "That seriously dates me, don't it?" She laughed and shook her head anyway. "Wolf and panther," Rose held up her tea mug to Amy's for cheers. "I always wanted to be... punk rock. Grunge scene. That's what Jimmy was inta. Worked as a backup singer and dancer for a bit, among other things." Quiet snort and a laugh, "Don't let the smiles fool ya, I was way too growly to ever be a cheerleader. Bad Wolf. My friends were all the kind of... nightlife girls too. I actually almost was the quiet one!" a laugh. "I was so used to my Mum..." a shrug. "It's just been wot... over a year, probably longer since I even could stay and talk to someone without it being End-of-the-world and recounting the sacrifices all my friends made to try to save others."

"She stole a bus?" Rose grinned. "Knows how to make an entrance, gotta give her that," a giggle. "And to think the French consulate threw a fit when I convinced whatever friends I could to run off with me in the Paris field trip so we weren't on schedule." She shook her head again. "First time, only time, I was in the back of a police car, the Doctor and I were bein' escorted to 10 Downin' Street. At first I thought we were under arrest. Next thing I know, we're huddled with Harriet Jones before she even became Prime Minister, under a cupboard, waiting for Slitheen to get hit by missile strike. By that point, I didn't know what to make of the Doctor anymore," Rose laughed. "I'd saved his life two or three times, he'd saved mine, I'd see him act just... so goofy. And then he was being kind of brave and awesome, even though he completely messed up and was just drawin' things out because he thought I'd die if he saved the world, sacrificin' me to do it." She bit her thumb. "Luckily, the walls are all reinforced 3 inch steel, and the cupboard was there. More lucky, I paid attention in all those classes when they simulated the London Blitz, yeah?"

She couldn't talk about the fears and being stranded anymore. Just... sealed a universe away. It was too depressing. So she just listened, and blinked about the daleks.

"They find hatred beautiful?" Rose blinked and shook her head. "I don't think that's why. They'd be able to kill 'im just fine if that was all that was needed. And the one I got cornered with? I didn't hate it. I couldn't. I felt bad for it. It was being locked up and tortured, and it was like the Doctor, I thought, last of its kind in the universe, couldn't find the others." She shivered, it still caused her nightmares. All the people it killed. "It definitely hated its torturers. I can't even blame it. But after all that, it got scared. Because I was scared. I hadn't been when it first asked, but after it killed hundreds of people..." Rose shook her head more. "Pretty sure that's the problem. In the TimeWar, they called him the Oncoming Storm. Even before the Time War, he wiped out their home planet. All the TimeLords in the universe fought them, but the only one who survived, who defeated 'em, was the Doctor. And he hated doin' it. Because he hated who he had to become for it. I don't think it's the hate stoppin' 'em. Just the fear. Because he was so legendary. He even said that. They try to purify 'emselves, right? But fear's too necessary, even for soldiers. Survival instinct's too strong, you can't sacrifice yourself without purpose or the war would be lost. So no matter what they do, the fear's still there. One o' many reasons they're stronger than cyberman," Rose shivered again.

Her eyes widened at the idea of them just forgetting the Doctor though. "How? Tons o' people called the daleks myths, unreal legends just meant to scare children at bedtime, but the Doctor's their version... of That for Them."

As for trying to get Rory to punch him...? Rose rolled her eyes and rubbed the back of her neck. "Masochist," she snorted.

She bit her bottom lip in thought. The Doctor might not forgive her, and she wasn't sure she liked the idea of letting the MetaCrisis near even a reformed/reforming??? River Song but... "What'd she say about the birthday?"

Staring at the mark that she was supposed to see... Rose just shrugged, "I'll... take your word for it, yeah? Perception filter I take it? Survival instincts, that fear I mentioned even in daleks? Too strong to get tricked. Sticks out things like fangs, poison, whatever. Dad kept tryin' ta use 'em on guns, in Pete's Universe, Britain hasn't got a Queen anymore, just presidents, because the line died with Queen Victoria, but uh, guns are still banned, o' course. And things like the dimension cannon, even though it doesn't shoot like a normal cannon, it rockets me through dimensions, you can't hide it. Fear and all that. And we couldn't find a way to make it wristwatch sized or anythin', so..." Rose shrugged. "I actually learned to use a gun for Torchwood, though I refused to carry one on the field, I just kept thinkin', he'd hate what I was becomin'. I was so mad at him for pointin' a gun at me." She shook her head more. "And I wanted Jack there. Drove me nuts. He was a Time Agent, and already knew loads about aliens and future tech and whatever else. Nearly punched the guy tryin' ta teach me guns at first. Then I had to get Jake to do it, because he's gay. He was datin' Micky's counterpart, Ricky, before he died."

She chewed a nail idly. "Micks can use a gun now. That's so weird. Mickey." She rubbed the back of her neck. "I just can't stop rememberin' him as the kid from the estates who was too scared of spiders. Or when we was investigatin' the school with Sarah Jane, he opened a closet of freeze dried rats, and screamed, and the Doctor just kept callin' him a little girl for it. Or even with the clockwork men, he was totally panickin'..." she shook her head. "Just the last person you'd ever expect to use a gun. And then Davros, he's like... the inventor of modern daleks. I don't know the whole story. He knew Sarah Jane though, so the Doctor must'a known him since forever it seems like." Another shrug and she rolled her shoulders. "He said we were his weapons. Martha was threatening to blow up the Earth rather than be used to unmake things, Jack was... I don't even know. Although that's a wicked unfair comparison. Jack was a soldier when the Doctor met him. And the Doctor helped him be better. Find his real self again." Well, and Rose helped, she figures. Since the Doctor was almost going to ditch Jack without her. Maybe she helped the Doctor remember who he wanted to be again.

"When the MetaCrisis destroyed them all," she said darkly, "I just thought good. So one of us didn't have to do it. Because if he hadn't... someone was gonna try. If not us, then Earth, or any of the other planets. He didn't just save us, he saved us from ourselves. And if sacrificin' himself so others don't get hurt isn't the most Doctor-y thing, I don't know what is."

[im_with_stupid]

"If he's in a room with River? You could toss for who has everyone's attention from moment to moment. When he's grandstanding, it's him, once she pulls a gun, however, it's usually her. And for good reason." Amy got her own fair share of attention, but she understood that people paid more attention to the insane alien and the woman with the gun. Honestly, Rory got overlooked fairly often and he was far more dangerous than she was.

"Some people like quiet and boring. I think Rory would probably settle in for quiet and boring if I wasn't so gung ho for adventures. But he doesn't want to leave me alone in the Tardis with the Doctor, so he goes with. I think he enjoys himself too, just not what he'd chose if it were just for himself." Which was part of why she was willing to discuss there being a time when they might...retire... from adventuring. She was just afraid that if he wasn't coming to pick them up, the Doctor would stop showing up at all. And while they might want a break from running and screaming and terror and fear and anger and rage.... they never wanted a break from him. He was their best friend.

"Your micks sounds like he's been through a lot. Said he's back in ours then? Want me to ring him up whenever we all wind up home? Keep an eye out for him? Make sure he's alright?"

"Oi, no, you don't get to act like you're old 'cause you know the Spice Girls, thank you. You're like what? Half my age? And if anything, I'm totally," she held up her hair, "Ginger Spice." She grinned. "But better we make our own group anyway. We could steal River's nickname and be the Children of the Tardis. That or Fighting Silence." If she were sober she'd realize those were horrible names.

"Stole a bus, drove it through the botanical gardens, nearly ran us down in a stolen sports car. We were not exactly amused, at the time." She shook her head.

"Harriet Jones. Not bad. I've met Churchill," she said with a grin. "Waring, he will try to steal your key, or the Doctor's, every chance he gets."

"Hey, just repeating what they said." She shrugged. "Well, back when they remembered him and it was all 'the predator.... ooooh.... shaking in our little metal skirts.' She shook her head. "I always found the Silurians more impressive myself." And more fun. "As to how they forgot him, happened when we were split up. I could tell you what the Doctor said, but Rory and I are pretty sure he was lying, so it doesn't help much."

"Not sure the exact phrasing, but apparently she said to Rory that more than one of the Doctor in one place was a whole other birthday."

"Yeah, they used them. Plenty scary anyway. But it was kind of fun, traipsing around Venice, knowing everyone was watching us, wishing they were us, and knowing that if they knew the truth they'd run screaming in the other direction." She grinned a bit.

She snorted a bit. "Rory was always the wimpy little kid trailing along behind Mels and me. Now? He's the last Centurion. Two thousand years, protecting me while I slept like a prince and princess in a fairy story. Only with the end of realty tossed in." She sipped her coffee and closed her eyes. "Weird, I don't remember getting all that much older, but Rory and Mels, they grew up when I wasn't looking. Guessing its the same with your Micks. Well then, here's to the immortality of never getting older after your 20th birthday, yeah?" she asked, raising her coffee cup for a salute, then she frowned a bit. "Which is what? Last year for you?" Blimey Rose was young. Okay, Amy might be a slight bit envious.

Amy snorted a bit. "Nothing wrong with being his weapons. Because then he can blame us, not himself. River said he got to big though. Back on Demons Run. He started erasing himself from history... He's saved so many people, so many times, and because he's no longer in the books, or someone reprograms a race or something, and everyone just forgets him?" She shook her head. "Sometimes the hard choices have to be made. I get that, I do. But seeing that man make those choices? Scared me to my core. Every time. I'd rather do it for him, I'd rather he hate me for it. Because he can't take hating himself much more."

A tear ran down her face.

"That's exactly him, and he hates himself for it. And I'd give anything to spare him hating himself any more than he already does, you know?"

[bigbadrose]

Rose just shook her head. "Okay, do not tell the Tie Doctor that River does that a lot. Like I said, he read Jack the riot act. Threatened to stick him out the--"

She gulped. Why doesn't it get easier? She should be NUMB by now from the alcohol. Inhibitions lowered, sure, but where was the numb?

She took a deep breath. "Like I said, basically exiled his human self to another universe for daring to save everyone's life." She snorted and rested her head on the table. "And d'ya remember Harriet Jones? Prime Minister?" Whom they just talked about. Rose is still a bit drunk. "She destroyed these aliens who were threatening to destory Earth if we didn't cede 1/3rd of the people as slaves or let them die. The Doctor got them to surrender, using a swordfight, s'how he lost his hand, and all that. But Harriet Jones used Torchwood to kill the aliens as they were tryin' ta retreat, and he was so furious he got her deposed. Guess the Meta Crisis killin' the daleks just reminded him of it."

As to the offer to look up Mickey, Rose's eyes widened and she nodded. "Yes, please. Mickey Smith. He might be workin' for Torchwood, UNIT, or somethin' else entirely..." Rose chewed her bottom lip and frowned. "I know Jack and the Doctor wouldn't let let him die, the first day I met the Doctor, he was kind of..." Rose rolled her eyes and shook her head. "He kept forgettin' about him. When the Nestene Conciousness ate him, they replaced him, and the Doctor pulled off the replacement's head and let him melt on the TARDIS dash," Rose facepalmed. "And I begged the Doctor to let him come along, and he said no... until he was tryin' ta push me away. Then was gonna bring Madame du Pompadour along for the same reason..." Rose grit her jaw.

"Just yeah. If you could say hi, tell him Bad Wolf or Rose sent ya. If nothing else, he could use a friend who understands what travelin' with the Doctor is like. Sounds like he'll get on with Rory too. Micks was... he would have been content to stay a simple mechanic, and because of me and my wantin' adventures, he got arrested, dumped in an alternate universe, fought armies, and saved the world 3 or 4 times. I dun' think he expected to never see me again. Well... not when he came after me with Mum. I didn't expect him to do that. I can't blame him for wantin' to go back to the original universe, but it's weird how we swapped." She felt dizzy trying to keep up with it all.

Rose giggled, "I am not! I was born in '87! What about you?" She rubbed the back of her neck in thought and admitted with a giant grin. "Okay the thing I miss the most selfishly? Gettin' to go back to old rock concerts. I got to see ABBA in Glasgow, the Beatles premiere on Ed Sullivan, and we missed getting to see Elvis, and Queen because the TARDIS is all finicky, and I don't even remember where we goin' when we wound up meetin' Queen Victoria, but I showed up in this super short jean skirt, right? And the Doctor's just all," Rose does an absolutely terrible Scottish impression, "Ach, Aye, Ah've been chasin' this wee bonnie lass oot and aboot the... moors!" Seriously. Terrible. Feel free to be offended on behalf of all Scotsman everywhere Amy.

"And I had to keep apologizin' to the Queen for my nakedity even though she brushed it off, havin' raised her own daughters, but yup. If the Doctor says to wear somethin' special? Don't expect it to matter always. I showed up in World War Two with a Union Jack printed across my chest, and hangin' from a barrage balloon, middle of the London Blitz. S'how I met Jack. He saved me, and then we danced and had champagne on his invisble ship tethered to Big Ben." Rose waggled her brows. "Not bad, yeah?"

She beamed, "Jack's also the best tour guide for nightclubs and music, he's into really weird indie stuff he says is way more popular by the Fifty-first century. It's really funny because you have to go outta your way to find a lot of 'em? But so worth it." A happy smile and she bit her finger. "'Cept I'm not gonna see him again. And the Doctor didn't warn me so I didn't even tell him... 'Cause if the Doctor had warned me... I'd probably have halted everythin' and fought with him right then and there on the ship and not let him kick me out." Her eyes were misty on the bottoms and she finished off her tea, wishing it was alcoholic, but the only way she could safely have more was dancing it off or running or just getting it through her system probably. She swallowed quietly.

"He kept..." She shook her head. Even drunk she couldn't say it. But it was important to stress something to Amy so she made sure to. "He was a total hero. Every splintered crack I went through right?" Deep breath. "He saved so many lives. Like I said... I should have... I should have told him on the TARDIS. I would have," she growled furiously, mad at herself, mad at the Doctor. Either he thought Rose would come with him, or he did that full well knowing that she might not get to see Jack again, that it would kill her. That after they just left him on the Satellite...

She shook her head and bit her thumb. "He always... the Doctor always got jealous of everyone else," she drunkenly admitted. Something she wouldn't have said any other day or time. "Micks, Adam, Jack. The Doctor asked why I trusted Jack so much and I was tryin' ta explain it in a way he'd get that it wasn't just instinct, but I wasn't crazy either. I trusted Jack with my life, and the Doctor's since I first met him. And I told the Doctor Jack's like him, but with flirtin' and dancin'. And the Doctor got all offended that I assumed he doesn't dance." A giggle, "Well we also started usin' the word for ah... more'n just dancin, yeah?" another eyebrow waggled and Rose giggled. "So then we solve the problem, and Jack was sacrificin' himself, expectin' to die, and I reminded the Doctor not to leave it like that, so we rescued Jack, and I was dancin' with the Doctor so he could prove to me he knew how to dance."

A giant grin. "He totally didn't at first. He was all left feet. But the minute Jack came on board, I was gonna dance with Jack instead, and the Doctor was like 'Nope!' said he remembered how to dance, and if I didn't dance with him he was gonna dance with Jack." So much giggles. "Always been like that." She shook her head and rubbed the back of her neck. "I think I got engaged to a caveman once. I do know Jack was takin' care of the one that got transported to my time though. He was none too pleased 'bout it, but he did a good job. The caveman got all settled in and everythin' even got married in the year 2006. Or 7? Nah! 6 I think. And I'm 26... or 27. It's like...." Rose held up both hands trying to conceptualize the wibbly wobbly time wimey-ness of it. "Pete's Universe runs on a different rate from the Doctor's. So in the 3 years Mickey was with Pete and Torchwood before Canary Wharf, it was only..." she scrunches her face trying to think. "Six months for me?" She chewed her bottom lip. "And then... in the alternate universes themselves, right? Days... months..." she swore profusely, "SOMETIMES WHOLE YEARS!" she pounded the table, "Would pass," a growl. "I could hook up the TARDIS whenever he died," oops, another thing she hadn't meant to say casually, but after so many conversations with the dead, or psuedo-dead in one day, Rose was losin' it a bit. "And charge the cannon, and skip forward to key points, but I still had ta, find those points. Every." More emphatic swears. "TIME."

She cracked her knuckles and leaned back in her stool, careful not to fall out this time. "One time I had to go.... 3 years in this one plane. I was able to jump it a lot, and it was towards the end, so I got to know the key players and what they'd do. Jack? Total hero. Stoppin' nuclear bombs." Her eyes welled with tears again. "Ianto, his boyfriend at Torchwood was the same way. They'd go up to the Sontaran ship to stop 'em from floodin' the gas. Sarah Jane Smith died on the moon..."

Rose leaned back forward and rested her head on her arms. "I never told him," she whispered to Amy, barely loud enough to be heard in the pub bar. "I didn't wanna upset him, I don't even know if he wanted me back after awhile. Maybe he didn't. Maybe he's just moved on and over it. Or maybe he only liked havin' me around when I was all... innocent and just made him laugh. I just... I wanted to make him laugh again," a tear trickled down, betraying her.

Rose nodded, crying with her new friend quietly. "He hates himself so much," she rubbed her eyes with the back of her hand. "More than he loves me," she laughed quietly. "I've seen what happens when he gets that bad. Hates himself more'n just... everything. I mean he basically fell that way when he lost me. Guilt I guess." Rose rolled her eyes. "Which is stupid because it was my choice, and he would have fallen into the void if I hadn't been there!" she growled furiously, and rubbed her eyes and forehead more. "Which is probably why he didn't really let me make the choice this time. Because he knew I'd either stick by him, and he considers it the wrong choice, or he'd resent me for it, or maybe he was worried I'd resent him because o' missin' everyone," Rose shook her head. "So this way I get to be mad at him. And he gets to just hate himself and not have me around to tell him he's bein' stupid. But at least..." she gulped again. "Donna would do that. For as long as she's with him. She's got a sharper tongue than me too."

[im_with_stupid]

"The Doctor sent off the aliens that were going to destroy the earth, then called them back to yell at them after they ran away. But yeah, of he goes to the effort of making peace, I can see him getting furious that someone destroyed it. But someone in power? Someone who could and would do it again? Yeah, I could see that."

"Mickey Smith, Rose the big bad wolf sent us, then let him and Rory go off and play in the yard and tinker with Rory's car. Got it."

She just stared at Rose. "87. You were born in 87. I guess time travel really ages a person," she said with a groan. "How is it possible you were actually born two years before I was? You still get to look 17, and you were born in 87. I look forty." Now she wanted that wine back. How unfair was that. Course, ten years with the Doctor.... They spent three weeks away during their anniversary party alone.

"Concerts? You got to concerts? He promised us concerts. Instead we get grass and Silurians and Rory dying again. You get concerts, River got concerts, closest I got was Space Florida. I mean, don't get me wrong, the digital sand was kind of awesome, but it didn't exactly sing 'Dancing Queen'."

"I don't know if you think that's how he talked, we talk, or what, but I think I've just been insulted, thanks." But the face she made left it clear she wasn't ANGRY over it. More like when Rory said something she just wanted to smack him for.

"World War Two." She made a face. "How many times did he drag you there, then?" She winced. "Alright, fine, winding up in Berlin was Mels' fault not his, but seriously, all the times he promised me a planet or a sunset, and I got death and screaming... she gets what she wants first trip?" Someone was sulkier than usual, given she was drunk.

"Oh, I know he's a hero, don't get me wrong. River and I broke time to make sure he knew it too. Voices from every part of the universe, heard he was in trouble and so many, so many of them, millions, maybe billions, all sending the same message. If the Doctor was in trouble, of course they'd help."

Okay, now Amy was blinking at her in confusion. "The Doctor? Jealous? The Doctor? The man who all but dragged my Fiancee alone because he went all 12 year old boy, eww keep girl cooties away from me when I kissed him. That Doctor? The man who married River Song, who also married Cleopatra, and then was okay with Cleopatra marrying River Song. The Doctor? Jealous?" Rose had to be pulling her leg, had to be.

Though she did snort about the dancing. "At least that much is the same. Rory and I had fun watching him dance at our wedding. He looked like an idiot. And freaked out more than a few friends and Rory's relatives. He was fair about dancing with everyone. Because he did. Dance. With everyone. Rory's uncle looked like he was going to break in half rather than move. It was great."

But her laughter faded as Rose grew sad, She slid off her bar stool, to move closer to Rose, butting an arm around her, giving her someone she could cry against. "I think he hates himself more than he loves anyone," she said quietly, something she wouldn't have said sober. "All we can do is keep loving him, and hope that eventually we wear him down enough that he's forced to love himself. So long as he's not alone... we can do it, we can take care of him. And you said he's got this Donna with him after you? So he has someone. You'll see. We'll take care of the Doctor. What his friends always do."

[bigbadrose]

"You're two years younger than me?!" Rose laughed and shook her head, "Nah, you don't look forty. Maybe not two years younger than me, but..." Rose shrugged. "I absorbed the time vortex into my head. Not even the Doctor knows all the side effects that might'a had on me."

Rose shook her head again, "Yeah I got concerts. Those were the only times I didn't put it on randomizer, but mind ya, we still missed like... half? Maybe more? And he wouldn't always stick around. Sometimes he'd just drop me off to see it alone. Or clubbin' with Jack. Space Florida?"

As for Scottish accent... Rose laughed. "He told me to never do that again. Is it really that bad?" She chewed her bottom lip, "I thought it was pretty good!" Nope.

"Just... the once for World War Two. Although I heard he spent a whole month there before he went travelin' with me. That was during his dark disaster fixed points tour phase. Frankly suicidal. Lessee. Oh, never EVER tell him I told ya this, I haven't even told him I looked him up. But there was Krakatoa, the Titanic, JFK Assassination, and yeah, that month in World War II. He was fresh out of the Time War and a bit maudlin." She winced. He didn't get better after losing her either, for all that the Doctor said Rose fixed him.

Rose narrowed her eyes. "You broke time?"

She didn't know how to respond to that. The Doctor would... never have forgiven her for that. She'd never done anything that reckless. Even all her universe hopping was to fix time. Blonde hair shook again. "No. No." She snorted. "He is not a god damn hero. Champion? Sure. Hero? NOPE." She poured more tea and drank it. "He's an idiot. In a box. With a screwdriver." No, well, he was a hero too, but she didn't like the burdens it placed on him. "Jack. Jack's the hero. Jack..." Rose shook her head. "It's not the same. The Doctor sacrificin' himself to fix time, or save someone else," she choked over that, remembering when he threw himself in front of everyone in the paradox to save them. "The Doctor's... an idiot." She drank more tea. "He's bored, and lonely, and scared, and sad, and gave up livin' because he couldn't take it all anymore." She shivered.

"Heroes don't..." She shook her head repeatedly, trying to clear the fog enough to express herself. "Heroes know deaths happen and just do their best. Heroes go down swingin'. Heroes..." Rose growled then, eyes blazing, all bad wolf. "Heroes are like my Dad. Facing death boldly. Not because they're scared of livin' and tired of the pain." She didn't look at Amy, but it was easy to see how furious Rose was about this. "Heroes take the pain, and don't come away with guilt and hate. That's his god damn problem."

She looked at Amy then, quietly, trying to process the idea. "They did?" she couldn't imagine it. She blinked, frowned, and scrunched her face up. "That's... weird," she admitted finally. "He was considered not even real. I mean daleks too. Just everyone thought they were all dead and gone from the Time War." She closed her eyes. No one knew about him in her jumps. No one understood why she was crying each time she reached for his lifeless hand. Or why she never got over or numb picking up his screwdriver and carrying on. "I can't... picture that," she admitted with a weird almost-laugh. "At all. He even told Mickey to wipe the data of him off the internet with a virus, because... during that missin' year, Mickey went and dug up everythin' he could on aliens and the Doctor, and even though everyone dismissed them all as crazy conspiracy theories, the Doctor said it was too dangerous for anyone tryin' ta follow him. Because like..."

She sipped her tea, face still scrunched. "When he was regeneratin', he was givin' off this stardust stuff that other aliens could sniff out. So they knew he was weak. Said they'd try to hook him up like a battery. And like... everyone who was just around it was basically in the way."

Rose shook her head. "That's why he's not a hero. At least... not when I knew him." Rose rubbed between her eyes. "Hero..." She shook her head. "He can't... I thought that's what his disaster suicide tour was about. Remindin' himself that he can't save everyone. No one can. He took me to the end of Earth on our first date, because... it was its time. I hate endin's, I hate 'em so much, yeah? They're sad, and it's worse when they're just unobserved. And he didn't get it, but it was like lettin' the planet die alone. We all missed it because we were all going to die from this whackjob piece of skin that wanted money. Compensation..." an eyeroll. "Thing was though... he couldn't go back and save his own people from the Time War. He saved me the first day he met me, took my hand, saved my life. But he said he was just passin' through. I mean, I'm pretty sure Earth is his favorite, even though he told me and Jack it's not, but..."

She snorted quietly and shook her head again. "No, the Doctor's not a hero. He's a good man. He made me a better person. Showed me and Micks, and even my Mum and Jack a better way livin'. Made Jack a hero. But he's not a hero himself. I think it'd break him if he tried ta be. He didn't die because he was sacrificin' himself. He died because he was too stubborn, too proud to ask for help. To --"

Rose closed her eyes, took a deep breath and leaned back. "That's what I was there for. Because all those times I got inta trouble, he knew he couldn't die or I wouldn't get home. When he lost me, he lost that, and let himself get killed." She rubbed between her eyes. "I know that's stupid. Bein' mad at him for dyin'. And I'm not. I'm really not. But I can nevar see him as a hero. Heroes live when it hurts. Like my Mum. My Mum is a right pain. Scary as all get out. I would gladly live in another universe to escape her wrath for runnin' away and tryin' ta get out. But she's a hero. She's strong, and even without my Dad, growin' up, she never gave up, always kept fightin'. I'm still so mad at her for comin' ta get me, but I know how much that must'a scared her. She hates travelin', I mean I'm not proud of her at all, because she left Pete and Tony and she had no way of knowin' if she could get back, and for what? I told 'em not to come after me." A grumpy growl and yet another headshake. "But yanno... Heroes are like... teachers or... or Jack. People who stay behind to clean things up. Or protect people even though they're goin' ta lose it all, or..." A small sigh. "Heroes have almost nothin' to lose. The Doctor always did. Have a lot more to lose than he knew. Showin' him people who'd do anythin' for him? That probably fucked him up a bit. But I'm glad. S'just..."

She struggled to articulate it, and the alcohol wasn't helping. "MetaCrisis, right? He had nothin' to lose. He knew I came back for the stupid alien in the box. He knew none o' us would survive long with all those daleks, even if he got all the planets back in their right places and times, he knew that the Doctor would probably shoot him out of an airlock. He had one heart, one stupid human heart, but he used all of it and his love for us, to do what he felt had to be done to protect and save us all. That's a hero." Rose said grimly. "And the Doctor was almost ready to murder him for it. Called him a thing. Treated him like a mutated hand, as if it wasn't his doin', nothing to do with him."

Jealous. MetaCrisis.

Rose gave up, if she was literally passed out drunk, it'd be worth it. She ordered another whiskey sour, and promised herself to mix it with the tea so the rest of the liquid would make it slow at least.

"Yeaaaaahhh..." she said slowly. "So... he... married Cleopatra?" she twitched. "Tell Mickey that." she closed her eyes. "When he went dancin' with Madame du Pompadour, he left me and Mickey to these clockwork soldiers that wanted to use body parts for the ship, and Mickey pointed out yanno... the Doctor brought up Cleopatra too. Called her Cleo."

Rose just doubled over whacking her head on the bar.

It felt good.

She doodled a finger on the bar top. "The Doctor left me with the MetaCrisis while I was snoggin' him... I figured... I don't know. He definitely got jealous though." She pinched between her eyes. "If things weren't such a mess with me right now, I'd say just watch me but..." Rose laid her head on the bar again, this time sideways. "He got jealous over Jack too. Wouldn't let Jack even say hello to people, because he says for Jack it's flirtin'. Fifty-first century and all. Man I'm just..." Rose rubbed her forehead with the back of her hand. "I need ta go runnin'. I miss him. I missed him for so long. Fought my way back to him for so long. And then he just left me. And I miss his human version, and I don't know what to do. The TARDIS better have somethin' to tell me because... he'll either be so glad to see me he gets shot by a dalek again, or miserable because guilt, and he doesn't want me and there should'a been a universe between us. I don't know anymore!" she groaned.

[im_with_stupid]

Amy decided to drop the age thing like a led balloon. It was only going to make her depressed. From the way Rose talked, Amy figured she had to have run with the Doctor at least as long as she had. Ten years Maybe closer to 15. And she still managed to look about half Amy's age. Of course, the Doctor was older than all of them and looked 12. That thought cheered her up a bit, at least.

"Space Florida," she agreed with a shrug. "Digital sand."

"Rose, your accent could make milk curdle. Stick to your own accent, much prettier, and less likely to get you a punch to the face." Not from Amy, Amy wouldn't, but she'd met plenty of people who would.

"Yeah. Well. Mostly River. But I helped her keep it broken long enough to do what we had to do." And she didn't regret it in the least.

Amy crossed her arms. "Sorry, but you're wrong this time. The Doctor is a hero. One of the best. General rule, someone who thinks they're a hero or tries to be a hero, they rarely are. Being a hero is not about who is giving up more or giving up less. It's about doing good, doing what is right even if it is difficult, but not because it is difficult. A hero does not need reward or an audience. It doesn't even need hope. It's about doing what is right, even if it might not make a difference. There are lots of kinds of heroes. Yeah, your mum might be one, but so is the Doctor. There are a lot of kinds of heroes, and he is one of those kinds, and one of the kindest ones at that. He never looks to be thanked. Doesn't matter if he doesn't value his own life, he still risks it. He risks his life over and over for people who don't know him, or know him and don't like him. He may be an idiot who thinks he's cool when he's really really not, but he is a hero. And he is loved more than he knows. And Heroes aren't perfect, not supposed to be. No one is. They can be scared, they can run away too. Just so long as they stand up and do the right thing when they need to. And even if he messes that up once, twice, a dozen times, that's nothing compared to how many times he's gotten it right. He's not perfect, but no one is." Sorry, Rose. She likes you, she does. But that's her best friend. And she will always defend him as a hero. Always.

Amy just rubbed her face. "You don't need another drink and neither do I. What we need is to burn some of this off. Take a walk, or a run, or just go find somewhere safe and sleep it off. We drink any more, someone might get hurt." And that would be bad. She was sure it would be. Even if she couldn't remember why....

[bigbadrose]

"Scared and runnin' away is fine, s'all I do," Rose growled, nodded, and got up, dug out some red bills, and glanced at Amy to make sure she wasn't drastically overpaying, but still leaving enough for a good tip.

"Come on," she grabbed Amy's hand to lead her outside.

"He's not a hero," she wanted to punch glass. "He's the Doctor." She dragged Amy along, not letting go of her hand. "Look look, see. He helps people be their best. Be better. But riskin' his life..." she growled and shook her head. "He'd destroy the world if someone didn't protect him. He's not the most important person in the universe. Everyone is important. And his death will lead to so many others, that he's not allowed to die. But he wants to." She grabbed Amy's shoulders and looked into her eyes, her own brown eyes blazing furiously. "He doesn't want to be stuck doin' this anymore. Tryin' ta save people. Losin' everything and everyone over and over and over. Donna's the hero. Donna saved him. Donna saved the multiverse. He can't do it alone. But he gets so arrogant and stupid he won't accept help, because he doesn't want to survive. That's the same as when he met me."

She cradled Amy's face in her hands, drunk or not, it was important and she was intense. "Promise me Amy. You don't forget that. He needs someone to anchor him. To keep him alive. To keep him livin' and enjoyin' and findin' fun and if he loses that, he'll lose himself. And then the Earth is an even more terrible place. It's important, Amy. Never tell him I told you. But never forget it. Never. YOU'RE the hero. He has to save you to save himself. To save the world. That's why, that's why he lost himself. He couldn't save me, and if Donna wasn't there, he died. Never forget it Amy, never, okay? Yeah? Promise me."

She held a finger over her lips and half-whispered. "That was my mistake at first. I thought he was stronger. I thought he was smarter. I thought he'd be okay. I thought he was the hero, I kept trying to track through him. But you can't. He's not the hero. He makes the heroes. He's the Doctor. It's important. You're the hero." She poked Amy's forehead, willing to stick, even if this was just another jump. Another faulty jump. Let it stick. "Rory's the hero. The Doctor is the Doctor. It's important." She shook her head. "I used to tease him about not having a name, but that is his name. It's not a codename, it's who he is, who has to be. It's important. Not hero."

[im_with_stupid]

my helped her figure it out, paying for her own stuff as well.

She went out with Rose, breathing in the comparatively fresher air. She listened to all that Rose said, and got the intensity, but she shook her head and stepped back, crossing her arms. "We're going to have to accept that we're going to disagree, then. Cause while I agree with you on a lot of it, on the fundamentals I think you've got a lot wrong, kid." She shook her head. "Some basics. Our being heroes does not take away from his being a hero, and his being a hero does not take away from us being a hero. That's one." And now she was craving a sandwich. "But even bigger? What you said about his not being allowed to die?" she shook her head. "That's not just wrong, it's horrifying. That he's not allowed to die because so many others would die with him? If you told me that, I'd probably want to die too!" She shook her head, and wobbled a bit. "Look, one thing to tell someoen they're not allowed to die and leave you. That's selfish, yeah. But it's also about them too. It's about how much you love that person. But not allowed to die because of the whole world is worse. Because it's pressure in ways no one needs to deal with. It's not our job as the people who love him to keep him alive for everyone else's sakes. It's our job to remind him of all the reasons he wants to keep himself alive. And if he has to keep himself alive to save you, to get you home, that's about you. And him. It's not about the universe."

"Universe is filled with people who love him, who he's helped. All across time and space. But that doesn't make the universe his obligation. Who has the right to tell him that he's only allowed to exist for others, and not allowed to die, because of them? Rose, you're furious with him for taking away his choice... when what he did was say to you, for the sake of the universe, this is your life now. But that's what you just said about him." She shook her head again, and fell on her butt in the street. Well, it was comfortable enough place to sit, she supposed.

"He's the Doctor. We agree about that. It is who he is. But he's also a hero. And my best friend. And my son in law. And a mad man with a box. He's a lot of things, and none of us have the right to demand of him that he be any one thing for the sake of everyone. Not even...for the sake of everyone."

[bigbadrose]

Rose sat down in the street, with Amy, and wrapped her arms around her legs.

It was funny, looking at it sideways.

The important things they were actually in agreement on. Just the words.

It was all a mess.

Rose shook her head. "I know. I know!" She rocked softly on her heels. "He wants to join the rest o' the TimeLords and his family an'--" she took a deep breath and covered her eyes with a hand. "It's good. It's good. Because you're his family now. He needs that."

She chewed a nail. "'m scared," she whispered to Amy. "Hero will be too much pressure for him. He should just be himself. Have fun. Not die of self-hate." She curled into a small tight ball, still rocking slightly. "Having all those people thank him... did it help? It didn't make him guilty or scared or...?" It was fine. Future him. He had Donna and Amy. He didn't need Rose bridging his deaths anymore. She didn't want to see his deaths anymore. It was like her own private hell. Working backwards from endings. She broke into tears. "I hate endings, Amy. I hate 'em. And that's all it was. I had to watch so many things end. And I did it for him. And then he just gave me one more," she bawled wiped her eyes on her arm. "I love him more than I hate endings," she admitted finally, still bawling, "And it wasn't enough."

Calling him a hero though, she still couldn't imagine do anything but give him panic or guilt attacks. Maybe he had to think he'd keep at it. And that was what killed him. Trying to be a hero, without getting someone else to be a hero for him. Maybe it just had to be lived. But Rose hoped Amy got it, she got the principle at least.

[im_with_stupid]

She sat beside her, and out her arms around Rose, holding her gently, soothing her.

"You should have seen him when he thought the Corsair was alive," she said softly. "Some of his people he'd like to be with again, but he told me about the war, he wouldn't want to be with all of them. And in some ways... in some ways I think we're more his people now than the other Time Lords. At least most of them. Your words, my word, both are a lot of pressure. But we only ever pointed out to him how much of a hero he was, when we really had to. Not sure we ever said the word out loud, but we thought it. At least, I know I did. To my mind... a Hero is one who has been a hero and might be again. A superhero is pressure to always keep being a hero... but it's semantics at this point and not what matters is that we love him, and are there for him and he knows that. What matters is that you're hurting because he did something stupid, and we need to fix that. The hurting if no other part of it. And we will, we'll get through this, you know why? Cause we're the ladies of the Tardis. And as someone very smart just told me... he only takes the best, yeah?"

[bigbadrose]

Rose laughed sadly, but leaned against Amy, more grateful than she could express. "Yeah. Yeah. Only the best," she sniffled, and hugged Amy hard. "You're the best too," she nudged Amy's arm with a small fist. "I gotta... I gotta run for a few hours. Hang out with someone... I don't know someone I just have to fake smilin' for, or really smile for, but that way I can face him again. He's gonna see through it anyway, but I gotta try." She rubbed her eyes with the fist again. "Protect him for me, okay? He won't be sad forever, he just has to get through it." She rubbed her eyes more and sniffled, "I wish you coulda seen him dancing with me and Jack. He was so happy then. He used to make me laugh so hard. There were days we just couldn't stop laughing and I couldn't tell ya what we were even laughing about! And Queen Victoria and Harriet Jones both told us off for it, but it never stopped us. Always kept jokin'. Gods... even at Torchwood, when cybermen and daleks were against each other, we were jokin' about ghostbusters and cracks and..."

Another sniffle and she rubbed her eyes. "It'll be okay. It's just... gonna be rocky. Yeah? Keep him safe until I can get there. Because I can't yet... first time I just... can't."

[im_with_stupid]

Amy rubbed her back lightly. "He's my best friend, and acts 12. Of course I'll look after him. You don't even need to ask." She shook her head and chuckled. "I saw him dance with the kids at the wedding. And we laugh a lot too. Mostly at Rory," she added with a small grin, to try and cheer Rose up.

And then she stopped. "Cracks? What kind of cracks?"

[bigbadrose]

"Good," Rose shook her head, still trying to line up the future Doctor with the one she knew.

"Mmm Cracks in the universe. To the void and beyond. The daleks escaped the Time War traveling into the void where time and space don't exist. I almost fell in too," Rose said soberly, despite being drunk. "S'how I wound up in Pete's Universe. Pete caught me in time. But then the Doctor had to seal off the universes again."

[im_with_stupid]

"Wait, then you do know about the cracks?" Didn't she say she didn't? Why didn't they have this discussion sober like the adults they were supposed to be.

[bigbadrose]

"No," Rose shook her head, and bit her bottom lip. "There aren't anymore. They got sealed off. If there was, I could come back...."

She laughed suddenly at that. "What do I know? We're all here right? Gotta be in a crack somewhere."

[im_with_stupid]

"And there were cracks after I started traveling with the Doctor. So I bet there's at least one more. And it's the Doctor, you never know. Maybe he was counting on you and the other him to find one and come back to him in the future."

[bigbadrose]

For a moment Rose rubbed her face. She wanted that to be true. She was scared if it wasn't. Scared if it was. What did it mean if he thought that or not?

She hugged Amy either way. No sense worrying too much about the distant future in another universe. One step at a time, don't lose sight of the now. "Maybe," she hiccupped. "Maybe." She was glad for Amy being there when she couldn't though. Even if it took her millions of years in the Doctor's time, if there was still hope, then she wouldn't give up. Not for anything.

And her paid is back!

[im_with_stupid]

She nodded and kissed the top of Rose's head. "So long as we hold on to maybe, we've always got something to run to, yeah?"